Finish advice: Raccoon eyes on vintage Gibson SG

[tahoeguitar]

I just got this '65 SG Standard in the shop. The owner installed Rotomatics when he was seventeen (about 1970). The plan is to remove them and replace with a set of TonePro Klusons which look a lot like the originals but are a much smoother tuner. The problem is the raccoon eyes.

https://umgf.com/finish-advice-racco...a-t193806.html

I was thinking of wet sanding the surface until the rings disappear, then buffing it out to a dull luster. But I'm worried about buffing compound and sanding debris getting in the cracks and not coming out. If you look close at the photo you'll see a lot of checking in the finish. So I need to reduce the rings without getting anything in the cracks (seems impossible to me), or is there a method for cleaning them out afterwards?

Anybody done this? Ideas?

[mirwa]

Wouldn’t let me view the photo without being a member of the other forum

Steve

[phavriluk]

I think a good cleaning and polishing is as much an invasion of the finished surface as I'd consider. I would not consider any abrasion of the surface of the headstock. There's that 'crown' and the Gibson logo which would be exposed to compromise and any work-around might well be obvious, and it would be irreversible. And that alone would compromise originality. Other judgements as to whether to swap out tuners, owner's choice. Perhaps a preview of one installation would be worthwhile. More screwholes in the back, too?

[hat]

you might try dampening the holes, just right at the top to swell the wood. If there is no finish in the post holes it may take some moisture in.

[tahoeguitar]

Let's try this and see if it shows up

[tahoeguitar]

BTW, the logo and crown are inlaid pearl.

[Earl49]

That is what I thought "raccoon eyes" meant -- the impression left by tightening up the tuner buttons, causing the finish to lift at the edge of the hole. Or sometimes just the dent left by excessive tightening of the hardware.

A '65 Gibson was probably finished with nitrocellulose, which seems consistent with the surface checking. While I am as far from a finish expert as you can get, I've seen some amazing things done by good repair people blending in nitro finishes. Wicking some thinned nitro lacquer into the edges might work to re-glue / fill the lifted portions. Just a thought....

[tahoeguitar]

Frank Ford shows a process on his site called re-amalgamating cracked lacquer. You use a specific chemical that melts and re-flows the old lacquer so the checks go away. The customer wants the racoon eyes gone. So the question becomes how much of a hit in value for a re-amalgamated or re-finished headstock. BTW it looks like retail for this vintage guitar is 7-11K USD.

[tahoeguitar]

The other idea that occurs to me is to refinish with an ambered lacquer to match the color, and then expose it to cold to check it.

[John Arnold]

No need to refinish the headstock. Flaking lacquer can be re-stuck wth retarder, and the missing or dented lacquer can be drop filled with thick lacquer. It is time-consuming, mainly because of the time it takes for lacquer to cure and shrink back.

i

[mirwa]

Originally Posted by tahoeguitar

The other idea that occurs to me is to refinish with an ambered lacquer to match the color, and then expose it to cold to check it.

Old Lacquer works as well, I have a drum of nitro which is about 10 years old, its got a real amber colour to the liquid, I use it for the vintage looks.

Clear clean fresh nitro



Old Nitro applied, the mother of pearl now has a gold amber look to it

[mirwa]

Originally Posted by tahoeguitar

Frank Ford shows a process on his site called re-amalgamating cracked lacquer. You use a specific chemical that melts and re-flows the old lacquer so the checks go away. The customer wants the racoon eyes gone.

If you want to seal some of the flakes, then just nitro thinners is all you need, it will soften and gummy those areas up, but it will not make them invisble.

The Racoon eyes (first time I have ever heard that term - Love it), scuff with scotch brite pad and drip fill, will work just fine.

Before



During, take note of the 3 scar lines in the neck for reference location of the fill area



After, again the three scar lines still exist, so totally authentic original look to it, we have simply raised the void areas



Steve

[B. Howard]

Honestly with that checking I would leave it alone, unless you want to wind up completely refinishing the face of the headstock...... Can't really sand and buff that with all those cracks and have it look decent.

It sounds so simple, just re-wet wit thinner and it's magic, OK. I can tell you it ain't that easy and I'll be here to fix it for ya later...... I Fix lot's of em.