Fender amps

[Don W]

How would you compare the Fender Hot Rod Deluxe amp (original first year issued) vs the Fender Deluxe Reverb reissue amp?

[Steve DeRosa]

Apples and oranges - each has its own distinct sound and purpose, and they're not interchangeable...

[rmp]

100% What Steve said.

The Hot Rod Deluxe (IMHO) has a very undesirable "gain" channel tone wise. I just don't like them. The Hot Rod Deville is a bit better, but,, it's still.. "meh" (I have a 4x10) It's ok.. but my marshall JTM60 combo DESTROYS it.


But they ALL take pedals nicely,, so if you're looking for the "cleans" straight in, and pedals for other stuff. you're ok.

the Deluxe Reverb is a 20wat amp (IIRC) you have to push it to get some grit out of it, but it's far more pleasing than the Hot Rods (to my ears anyway)

[Bob Womack]

Comparison?

The Hot Rod Deluxe Reverb (HRDR)
40 watts
Master volume
Two switchable channels plus boost
Modern sound on both clean and drive channels - more note definition than classic designs
12" modern speaker
Solid state reverb
Based around a printed circuit board
Powerful enough to use in a club if you don't mind playing with some gain.
The best selling amp in Fender history

The Deluxe Reverb Reissue (DRR)
22 watts
No master volume
Classic two channel, four spigot amp - crank it until it drives
Normal channel with no effects
Vibrato channel with tube reverb, vibrato, and "bright capacitor"
12" Jensen reissue speaker
Reproduced via a printed circuit board
This is the quintessential Fender reissue amp with the classic rock sound.
Powerful enough to use in a club if you don't mind playing with some gain.

Offered the choice, I bought the Deluxe Reverb Reissue. I liked the clean sounds better.

Bob

[pieterh]

What Bob said. We use both at the theatre where I work and the Deluxe Reverb is the one professionals ask for, the Hot Rod the one students and (some) rockers ask for.

The Blackface DRR is my amp of choice at home. The clean sound is fantastic and it takes pedals really well. Even at only 22 watts it works well in our venue (500 seater) with a mic in front of it. If the volume is any more than around 5-6 it gets too loud for the stage and the sound engineer has less margin to push it when needed or take it down when not.

The HR has a nice clean channel but as others have said the high gain channel isn’t to everyone’s taste...

[Dru Edwards]

Originally Posted by pieterh

What Bob said. We use both at the theatre where I work and the Deluxe Reverb is the one professionals ask for, the Hot Rod the one students and (some) rockers ask for.

The Blackface DRR is my amp of choice at home. The clean sound is fantastic and it takes pedals really well. Even at only 22 watts it works well in our venue (500 seater) with a mic in front of it. If the volume is any more than around 5-6 it gets too loud for the stage and the sound engineer has less margin to push it when needed or take it down when not.

The HR has a nice clean channel but as others have said the high gain channel isn’t to everyone’s taste...

Hey Pieter, your comment makes a lot of sense.

Don (OP): You specifically mentioned the first year of release of the Hot Rod Deluxe. They're on version IV now and I've read that the gain channel is improved over the earlier versions.

[FrankHudson]

These are two good amps, and they aren't worlds apart in sound even if we can differentiate them.

I've never owned a Deluxe Reverb, but I've heard one many a time. I have owned a pre-CBS blackface Fender Princeton (not a Princeton Reverb) since about 1981. I've owned a Hot Rod Deluxe since the late Nineties. I think mine is the first edition.

The HRD can get very loud, but also has enough headroom on the clean channel that you can play clean with good headroom. The reverb is fine. The gain (and more gain) circuits get a lot of guff from players. One issue is that this isn't a two channel amp, your tone setting remain as you add gain, so you need to find a working compromise there. I find the engaging the gain channel on mine (set for mild amount of drive) a worthwhile option. Years back I used to use the More Gain curcuit for the Neil Young kind of grungy thing, and found it worked for that, even a bit more cutting in a mix than some "Tweed Deluxe or clone turned all the way up" ways to try to cop that vibe. However, I use the clean circuit (call it channel if you want) most of the time recently. If you like pedals for gain, it works well with them. This main gripe about the amp is a moot point compared to the DRRI as you can just not use a feature that isn't in the DRRI at all.

The early ones are notorious for a sharp taper on the volume knobs, you have to move them a millimeter at a time early in the travel to get the lower volume/gain settings. A common way that folks who needed lower volume for home use with them was to use a volume box injected into the effects loop. JHS makes a box just for that purpose. I just am very careful as I move the knobs and cope. But it does have an effects loop. Good if you like to use some kinds of effects. I have a tremolo pedal in the loop right now.

The DRRI has build in, and nice, vibrato. No effect loop. No "gain" or more gain circuits. You can use pedals to get gain if you need that. There also is non-vibrato channel, but I've not been around someone who used that channel. Very nice timbre and it can get loud enough for any stage I want to be on. Both the HRD and the DRRI have the Fender type tone with a scooped midrange, but the HRD has a mid control that can modify that a bit more. The HRD has slighly larger cabinet, but the two amps weigh almost the same. I think the DRRI, like most 6V6 power tube amp has a bit more natural compression when driven a bit, and when I switch between my 6V6 Princeton and my HRD that's what I notice first.

My honest feeling is that the HRD gets knocked for features that aren't even present in the Fender DRRI or other classic Fender reissues and for that touchy volume control. I often think that if the HRD was a printed circuit board reissue of pre-CBS design and the DRRI was a new design put out in the modern era, the HRD would be a considered a classic.

[Don W]

Originally Posted by FrankHudson

These are two good amps, and they aren't worlds apart in sound even if we can differentiate them.

I've never owned a Deluxe Reverb, but I've heard one many a time. I have owned a pre-CBS blackface Fender Princeton (not a Princeton Reverb) since about 1981. I've owned a Hot Rod Deluxe since the late Nineties. I think mine is the first edition.

The HRD can get very loud, but also has enough headroom on the clean channel that you can play clean with good headroom. The reverb is fine. The gain (and more gain) circuits get a lot of guff from players. One issue is that this isn't a two channel amp, your tone setting remain as you add gain, so you need to find a working compromise there. I find the engaging the gain channel on mine (set for mild amount of drive) a worthwhile option. Years back I used to use the More Gain curcuit for the Neil Young kind of grungy thing, and found it worked for that, even a bit more cutting in a mix than some "Tweed Deluxe or clone turned all the way up" ways to try to cop that vibe. However, I use the clean circuit (call it channel if you want) most of the time recently. If you like pedals for gain, it works well with them. This main gripe about the amp is a moot point compared to the DRRI as you can just not use a feature that isn't in the DRRI at all.

The early ones are notorious for a sharp taper on the volume knobs, you have to move them a millimeter at a time early in the travel to get the lower volume/gain settings. A common way that folks who needed lower volume for home use with them was to use a volume box injected into the effects loop. JHS makes a box just for that purpose. I just am very careful as I move the knobs and cope. But it does have an effects loop. Good if you like to use some kinds of effects. I have a tremolo pedal in the loop right now.

The DRRI has build in, and nice, vibrato. No effect loop. No "gain" or more gain circuits. You can use pedals to get gain if you need that. There also is non-vibrato channel, but I've not been around someone who used that channel. Very nice timbre and it can get loud enough for any stage I want to be on. Both the HRD and the DRRI have the Fender type tone with a scooped midrange, but the HRD has a mid control that can modify that a bit more. The HRD has slighly larger cabinet, but the two amps weigh almost the same. I think the DRRI, like most 6V6 power tube amp has a bit more natural compression when driven a bit, and when I switch between my 6V6 Princeton and my HRD that's what I notice first.

My honest feeling is that the HRD gets knocked for features that aren't even present in the Fender DRRI or other classic Fender reissues and for that touchy volume control. I often think that if the HRD was a printed circuit board reissue of pre-CBS design and the DRRI was a new design put out in the modern era, the HRD would be a considered a classic.

Thanks Frank

[Pnewsom]

Good responses to an interesting topic. I currently gig with either a 64' White Knob Princeton, or a 67' Vibrolux Reverb, depending on the band and venue. I also worked with a 70's Deluxe Reverb for a while.

The fundamental difference between Deluxe Reverb/Princetons and a HotRod Deluxe is the power tubes they are built on. Deluxe Reverbs use a pair of V6V tubes(15-22watts), while the Hot Rod uses a pair of 6L6 tubes(30-45watts depending on configuration). An equivalent Fender Blackface amp from the 60/70's would be the Vibrolux Reverb, Super Reverb, or a Pro Reverb.

While all these amps can get quite loud when pushed, the 6L6 amps seem to have a stronger bass response that lets them cut through louder volumes on stage. This makes a big difference, as in my experience, DR's and Princeton's can get thin and small sounding when pushed too far. Not a good thing when the drums and bass are cooking in an R&B band.

While it's true that an amp can simply be mic'd to make up the difference, there are a lot of pub and bar gigs where the PA is pretty much for vocals only. You need get your sound into the room with just your amp.

All this to say, if you are going the small/medium powered tube amp route, it's worth having both 6L6/EL34, and 6V6/EL84 tubed amps available.

[M Sarad]

I have 2 Tweed deluxes and a DR. I never bonded with the hot rod deluxe models.

[rmp]

Originally Posted by M Sarad

I have 2 Tweed deluxes and a DR. I never bonded with the hot rod deluxe models.

No surprise there.

the gain side of those amps to my ears is "unpleasing"

Even my 4x10 Hot Rod Deville falls into this catagory.

the amp is a beast with tons of clean headroom,, but with out a good OD pedal, it's 60lbs of wood and metal if you want any kind of "crunch" or gain tones out of it.

I've had that amp since 98, but it will soon be on the auction block.

Once I bought the Marshall JVM head/cab a few months ago, Honestly, for what I am lookin for... nothing else holds a candle to it.

[Glennwillow]

Originally Posted by rmp

No surprise there.

the gain side of those amps to my ears is "unpleasing"

Even my 4x10 Hot Rod Deville falls into this catagory.

the amp is a beast with tons of clean headroom,, but with out a good OD pedal, it's 60lbs of wood and metal if you want any kind of "crunch" or gain tones out of it.

I've had that amp since 98, but it will soon be on the auction block.

Once I bought the Marshall JVM head/cab a few months ago, Honestly, for what I am lookin for... nothing else holds a candle to it.

I also have a Blues Deville 410 from about the same vintage you have, maybe a little older. Mine is the first generation of the Blues Deville 410.

I never liked the overdrive channel on the Blues Deville, but the clean tones are good, though awfully loud. To address the loudness, I changed the #1 preamp tube from a 12AX7 to a premium quality 12AT7. That changed the gain structure to give me a lot more control over volume. And, I use pedals to add crunch or overdrive, which sound a whole lot better than the overdrive channel in the amp.

Most of the time I use a Line 6 POD HD Pro X rack mount unit into my studio gear and it sounds wonderful without all the hassles and dangers of all that wall shaking volume.

Most of the time I use my Blues Deville in a super clean setting with my Eastman archtop and it sounds very good used that way. I keep thinking about buying something better, but it already does what I want.

I have thought about buying a Fender Tweed Deluxe but I really don't want an amp that overdrives so easily.

- Glenn

[rmp]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

I also have a Blues Deville 410 from about the same vintage you have, maybe a little older. Mine is the first generation of the Blues Deville 410.

I never liked the overdrive channel on the Blues Deville, but the clean tones are good, though awfully loud. To address the loudness, I changed the #1 preamp tube from a 12AX7 to a premium quality 12AT7. That changed the gain structure to give me a lot more control over volume. And, I use pedals to add crunch or overdrive, which sound a whole lot better than the overdrive channel in the amp.

Most of the time I use a Line 6 POD HD Pro X rack mount unit into my studio gear and it sounds wonderful without all the hassles and dangers of all that wall shaking volume.

Most of the time I use my Blues Deville in a super clean setting with my Eastman archtop and it sounds very good used that way. I keep thinking about buying something better, but it already does what I want.

I have thought about buying a Fender Tweed Deluxe but I really don't want an amp that overdrives so easily.

- Glenn

I think mine was the first gen too even has the very touchy master volume

I use OD pedals as well and use the gain channel as a (mostly) clean boost for solos.

but yea, a loud amp for sure, a beastly little thing...

since I added the Marhsall JVM rig, I'm not even using it, It's probably time to float it out there to see if I can any interest on a sale.

[Glennwillow]

I have read that used Fender Blues Deville 410 amps typically sell for about $500. Mine has never been out of my studio and looks brand new. To me, $500 doesn't seem like very much money for this amp, so I'm sitting on mine, and trying to make use of it.

I have never played through a Marshall amp. It might be fun.

- Glenn

[rmp]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

I have read that used Fender Blues Deville 410 amps typically sell for about $500. Mine has never been out of my studio and looks brand new. To me, $500 doesn't seem like very much money for this amp, so I'm sitting on mine, and trying to make use of it.

I have never played through a Marshall amp. It might be fun.

- Glenn

you're right Glenn, $500 for that amp is almost at the "never mind I'll keep it" point. incidentaly, mine is in like new condition too.

Marshalls are great amps, pretty versatile these days as they have really cleaned up the "clean" side, and the crunch/over drive is really the sound in my head. I'm heavy into les pauls, and marshalls are the perfect match.

happy new year!