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  #31  
Old 09-23-2023, 12:08 AM
Jaywalk3r Jaywalk3r is offline
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Originally Posted by Mandobart View Post
What do you mean by "adapt"?
Sorry. "Acclimate" would have been a better choice of words. The wood acclimates to its environment.

In other words, so there's no need for further pedantry, the wood changes dimensionally as it absorbs/releases moisture from/to the air. That is precisely why controlling humidity and temperature is important for guitars.
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  #32  
Old 09-23-2023, 02:29 AM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
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RH has been higher than usual in South east England this year, around 50-55%

I keep most guitars in cases with Music Nomad soundhole hygrometers, which show me that even in cases they've equalised to the house.

Aurumn has crashed in in the last couple of weeks and RH has topped out at 67% this last week, so I've been microwaving the bags of crystals to put in the cases, and am in the process of casing up the guitars that normally live on stands in the lounge.

Central heating has decided it is time to start, so the house will be warming up and hopefully the monsoon like rains we've had might reduce soon.

I'm shortly off to do a 45 minute open air spot in a park and outside RH is about 92% !

What can you do ? Take it, play it , put it away, bring it home!
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  #33  
Old 09-23-2023, 05:46 AM
Italuke Italuke is offline
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It's far less important than the Interwebs would have you believe.

Just be reasonable, don't freak out about percentages, dont lose sleep, PLAY your instruments.

- Signed: 60 year resident of Arizona and California deserts.
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  #34  
Old 09-23-2023, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
How does the inside of the case become warmer than the room temperature? Have you tried another meter in the case?
Yes something is definitely off in Geldaland (unless you set the case in direct sunlight or the the Boveda packs are somehow raising the temp ??) There is no logical reason the case should go up in temperature
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  #35  
Old 09-23-2023, 08:02 AM
Bluenose Bluenose is offline
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If you're unfamiliar with the term hydroscopic maybe look it up. It might help knowing what it means because wood has hydroscopic properties. Some guitars have survived long exposure to dry air without apparent damage and some become distorted, cracked and unplayable. Maybe it's a sudden exposure to the dry air (anything less than 30% relative humidity) that does the damage. There could be many factors involved like the RH of the place of manufacture, where the wood was harvested in terms of altitude, type of species and so on. I talked to someone recently who lives where I do that inherited his grandfathers vintage Gibson J 200 in good playing condition and I doubt that it was purposely humidified but maybe just kept in its case. Personally I wouldn't take any chances. I monitor RH very closely in the dry, cold months and make sure my guitars are not over exposed to dry air to the point where they might dry out. The humidity never gets high enough here to do damage except to the guitars tone.
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  #36  
Old 09-23-2023, 10:26 AM
Joseph Hanna Joseph Hanna is offline
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Originally Posted by Bluenose View Post
If you're unfamiliar with the term hydroscopic maybe look it up. It might help knowing what it means because wood has hydroscopic properties. Some guitars have survived long exposure to dry air without apparent damage and some become distorted, cracked and unplayable. Maybe it's a sudden exposure to the dry air (anything less than 30% relative humidity) that does the damage. Many factors could be involved, like the RH of the place of manufacture, where the wood was harvested in terms of altitude, type of species and so on. I talked to someone recently who lives where I do that inherited his grandfathers vintage Gibson J 200 in good playing condition and I doubt that it was purposely humidified but maybe just kept in its case. Personally I wouldn't take any chances. I monitor RH very closely in the dry, cold months and make sure my guitars are not over exposed to dry air to the point where they might dry out. The humidity never gets high enough here to do damage except to the guitars tone.
Well,......sticking with a theme here.

I agree. There are obviously guitars that, for whatever reasons, are far more impervious to humidity invasions than others. Serendipitous choice of woods during the builder's buying process, where the wood was harvested initially, how the builder chooses to dry the wood, what humidity the guitar was built under, and in the case of glue separation, what glues were used are all a component of how a guitar may, or may not react under less than ideal conditions. There are also massive environmental differences as well. Joshua Tree, California, is not St. Louis, Missouri. There's also (at least for me) the suspicion some folks just aren't able to hear the effects of an over-humidified guitar and somewhat unaware of the changes at hand. The obvious litmus test for me is in front of a mic in my audio bay. There is, at times, a ginormous change in how the guitar sounds in that environment. There is also that pesky $ 1,000.00 repair bill I endured to have my Breedlove essentially rebuilt from an over-humidified explosion.

So, in point, those that often throw the ultra-wide wet blanket that humidity is just a wives-tale and have a guitar they keep outside all year, in the rain and snow, with no issues, I'd submit that they are singularly lucky for whatever reason. To insist humidity problems are not a legitimate issue on any level and "guitars were meant to be played" is (again, for me) not great advice. As I mentioned earlier, I make a portion of my living recording my guitar, in so I don't need a reminder that "guitars are meant to be played". I take care of my guitars, and I play my guitars. The two concepts are not mutually exclusive.
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  #37  
Old 09-23-2023, 11:57 AM
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JayBee1404 JayBee1404 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenose View Post
If you're unfamiliar with the term hydroscopic maybe look it up. It might help knowing what it means because wood has hydroscopic properties.
You might like to look it up too - I’m pretty certain you mean ‘hygroscopic’.

https://www.fs.usda.gov/research/tre...n%20the%20wood.
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  #38  
Old 09-23-2023, 01:26 PM
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I have an inexpensive laminate guitar. Its sits out all day on a stand. When I moved from the Chicago area to Palm Springs CA area, the humidity change affected the neck of the guitar. I had it worked on and started using a D'Addario humidifier. Since then, I have had no issues. I am not sure if the sponge humidifier does anything. It could be that it just got acclimated with the humidity. Nearly two years later, all good. Knock on wood...laminate.

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  #39  
Old 09-23-2023, 03:09 PM
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Bob Womack Bob Womack is offline
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Originally Posted by Italuke View Post
It's far less important than the Interwebs would have you believe.
How about the manufacturers? For a long while there was a myth going around that Taylor guitars were more susceptible to humidity levels and changes because they put a pamphlet in each guitar case that taught you how to protect your instrument from humidity changes and conditions.

Guess what? Martin is now putting a pamphlet in each guitar case that teaches you how to protect your instrument from humidity changes and condition. Manufacturers are taking it seriously enough now.

Bob
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  #40  
Old 09-23-2023, 03:09 PM
beninma beninma is offline
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Laminates are much much more resilient in the face of humidity changes. That’s a big factor. Maybe not as much with guitars since only the cheapest guitars are all laminate.

Martin and Taylor would not include the humidity pamphlets and write clauses in the warranty about humidity if it was all a lie.

Not sure about Martin but the Taylor factory had a hygrometer in every room and if the humidity went out of range they’d sound an alarm, cause it could ruin guitars on the line or pallets of tone woods. If it was all a tale to void warranties they wouldn’t need to take it so seriously in the factories.
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  #41  
Old 09-23-2023, 03:55 PM
guitar george guitar george is offline
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Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
How does the inside of the case become warmer than the room temperature?
zach156 "lives in an apartment with air conditioning and at night it is usually off." At night the apartment and the guitar case warm up due to the air conditioner being off. During the day the room temperature goes down quite quickly, due to the air conditioner being on. The temperature in the case takes much longer to adjust to the lower temperature in the room such that it is likely to be 5 degrees higher, more or less, during the day.
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  #42  
Old 09-23-2023, 05:26 PM
Bluenose Bluenose is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayBee1404 View Post
You might like to look it up too - I’m pretty certain you mean ‘hygroscopic’.

https://www.fs.usda.gov/research/tre...n%20the%20wood.
Oh yes my bad but you know what I meant.
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  #43  
Old 09-23-2023, 06:14 PM
printer2 printer2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitar george View Post
zach156 "lives in an apartment with air conditioning and at night it is usually off." At night the apartment and the guitar case warm up due to the air conditioner being off. During the day the room temperature goes down quite quickly, due to the air conditioner being on. The temperature in the case takes much longer to adjust to the lower temperature in the room such that it is likely to be 5 degrees higher, more or less, during the day.
I run my AC when needed and turn it off at night also but with the lower outside temperature I do not get much more than a rise of 1-2 degrees.

"In fact with regular on-and-off AC in my apartment, temperature sits at about 70-74 degrees and about 50-55 RH. Unfortunately, I assumed it would be safer in the case, but the case was consistently about 5 degrees hotter and wetter inside. However, while my apartment conditions are pretty good, I cannot run the AC constantly, and at night (when it's usually off) the RH rises to 65-67 RH."

The OP said that the humidity rises but no mention of the temperature.

"Yes, when running the AC on and off the apartment is within a desirable range, but I won't be home all the time and I don't necessarily want to run the AC constantly either. And then there is the nighttime issue too. I thought that the case would hold and sustain the room temperature at the time of its closure, and the Boevda packs would maintain 49% RH, as advertised... But neither happened. If my apartment was 72 degrees and 55 RH, my in-case hydrometer would immediately start jumping up in temperature and RH.."

I found it odd that,

"If my apartment was 72 degrees and 55 RH, my in-case hydrometer would immediately start jumping up in temperature and RH."

immediately jumping up in temperature did not suggest the room temperature increased.
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  #44  
Old 09-23-2023, 06:22 PM
zach156 zach156 is offline
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thanks, you said a little extra humidity will dampen the tone a little bit. I've noticed. I'd say it's playing at about 95% tone right now. If I expose the guitar to lower humidity for a bit can I expect 100% of the tone back?
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  #45  
Old 09-23-2023, 06:37 PM
Joseph Hanna Joseph Hanna is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Womack View Post
How about the manufacturers? For a long while there was a myth going around that Taylor guitars were more susceptible to humidity levels and changes because they put a pamphlet in each guitar case that taught you how to protect your instrument from humidity changes and conditions.

Guess what? Martin is now putting a pamphlet in each guitar case that teaches you how to protect your instrument from humidity changes and condition. Manufacturers are taking it seriously enough now.

Bob
There was a Wood&Steel magazine years ago where Bob Taylor was lamenting the fact that a disproportionate amount of guitars returned to Taylor for major repairs was directly attributed to user error in regard to humidity. He tap danced the realities surrounding the idea that owners were incensed that there would be a charge to fix their guitars and the ill will it, unfortunately, created when they didn't. I don't remember the percentage of how many repairs were humidity caused, but I do remember the percentage was very, very high. I recall it being in the 61-70% range.
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