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  #1  
Old 03-12-2015, 09:36 PM
kkfan kkfan is offline
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Unhappy Jazz Losing Ground in the U.S.

Now here's a disturbing trend...

http://thejazzline.com/news/2015/03/...r-music-genre/
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Old 03-12-2015, 10:30 PM
posternutbag posternutbag is offline
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Maybe. I think it also represents the slow demise of so-called "Smooth Jazz." Except in small quantities, Jazz has not been commercially relevant since the decline of Swing sixty years ago.

The sales numbers for jazz have been propped up for decades first by Jazz Fusion in the 1970s and then by its even more tepid stepchild "Smooth Jazz." As AM/FM radio continues to loose traction as a viable medium, commercially viable Smooth Jazz artists will continue to loose traction in the marketplace.

When I was a child, I remember Kenny G and Earl Klugh were played in virtually every office, but that "audience" has been dwindling for ten years or more.

I don't know that that is a bad thing, because that wasn't really an audience. It was background music. Jazz is, and always will be a niche market. Those of us who love Jazz will always love it. Until recently, I had not bought a Jazz record in five years. I bought all of the "classics," and then I stopped. Online forums like this one opened my eyes to Jazz guitar, and I began buying Wes Montgomery, Joe Pass, Al Di Meola, Ed Bikert and Lenny Breau. Now I look to guitarists like Charlie Hunter, Bryan Baker and Julian Lage.

Record sales are meaningless. Internet and satellite radio will be were Jazz thrives. I think it is the responsibility of those of us who love Jazz to continue to look for and promote artists we see and hear that move us.
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Old 03-12-2015, 11:16 PM
kkfan kkfan is offline
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Originally Posted by posternutbag View Post
I think it is the responsibility of those of us who love Jazz to continue to look for and promote artists we see and hear that move us.
Agreed. Very well said.
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Old 03-13-2015, 09:43 AM
Gratefuliving Gratefuliving is offline
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Originally Posted by posternutbag View Post
Maybe. Now I look to guitarists like Charlie Hunter, Bryan Baker and Julian Lage.
Never heard Bryan Baker before, thanks! Also great forum name!

I completely agree, I use spotify and a few other like services, but try and buy these guys and those in their category's albums whenever something new comes out, hit the shows etc.
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Old 03-13-2015, 10:47 PM
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Being a long-time fan of jazz music, a small part of me is sad to know that jazz is the least popular genre. Having said that, there are many steep challenges in terms of popularity for this kind of music.

Some of the things that "jazz lovers" appreciate most about jazz are things that the many music listener could care less about or not find at all appealing. Improvisation, harmonization, complex rhythm, odd meter, counterpoint, and the like are rarely as easy to listen to as a simple melody, 1-4-5 symmetry, lyrics, or simply a beat you can dance to.

From the article, it appears that jazz is in good company. Classical is suffering a similar popularity…or lack there of.

In my opinion, while pop, rock, “alternative”, country, etc. will rely on popularity to survive, I believe jazz and classical will continue to thrive at the very least in most high school and colleges across the planet.

Almost anyone learning an instrument even at the most casual level starts with classical or jazz music. For those learning how to play a horn, percussion or stringed instrument (violin, etc) most start by learning the fundamentals of jazz or classical. Personally, I think this is because there are no more complete art forms in music than jazz or classical.

So, while jazz is perhaps taking its lumps in CD and MP3 sales, I believe it will continue to live a healthy existence in schools across the globe. Just like important scholarly texts that were kept safe in monasteries during the dark ages, only to be rediscovered in the Renaissance, so too will jazz and classical be well cared for in schools and other institutions of higher learning until people are again ready to hear “real” music!
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Old 03-14-2015, 02:50 AM
frankhond frankhond is offline
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Record sales is a bad metric because, frankly, most modern jazz records suck. Jazz can be a fantastic experience live, but on most records it sounds overproduced, lifeless, riskless and boring.

There are notable exceptions, mostly among the older stuff like miles davis "kind of blue" or john scofield "shinola" where somehow the raw live quality stuck. But you don't hear that on record nowadays.

So I go to live jazz shows and continue to be amazed, but haven't bought a single record since the 90's.
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Old 03-14-2015, 04:32 AM
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iim7V7IM7 iim7V7IM7 is offline
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Thanks for sharing the article. A sad, but true reflection of the state of jazz within the music industry and popular culture. I hope that it survives as a genre, which I suspect it will. But I do think age and demographics don't look favorable. Popular music became a visual medium.

It reminds me of an old adage that I am sure that many of you have heard. In popular music, 3000 people fill a room to watch someone play 3 chords. In jazz, 3 people fill the room to watch someone play 3000 chords.
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Old 03-14-2015, 08:17 AM
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When I was a young guitarist playing in my high school and college bands (in the late 90's early 2000's) I was all about the blues, rock and funk. my bands played everything from Led Zeppelin styled heavy rock to more modern pop-rock. And it was a lot of fun and we got gigs.

At some point in my late teens I heard "*****es Brew" for the first time. Bought it at a used record store cause I dug the art on the label and obviously knew Mile's was a legend though not really knowing much else about him at the time.

Listening to that record was a similar experience to the first time I listened to a Jimi Hendrix album. My entire world expanded over the course of that 94 minutes. I never knew music could be like that. That was my entrance exam into Jazz. Since then the music I used to love seems so simple and elementary. I still love it all but its not the same anymore.

The thing about Jazz that is different than other genres is that I have that same world expanding experience far more regularly listening to Jazz… Wes Montgomery, Miles, Coltrane, jacob fred jazz odyssey etc etc…

That, to me, is really what Jazz is all about. It's not a product like pop, rock and country. Just like not everybody is a book reader or maybe more accurately a reader of poetry… not everybody wants to delve into music in a way that will expand their world. To those that do it seems sad. But it's not sad. It's just the way it is.

I think when you combine that with the contemporary problems of record sales in a digital world, a collective dumbing down of people in regards to all the arts, and the more fast paced lives we lead… it makes total sense that Jazz record sales have declined a bit. Although I dont think they have been very high for quite some time.

I dont think Jazz is dying. There are still tons of jazz students all around the world, there are still people like John Stowel driving around the country in his car on his own dime like some kind of jazz monk sharing his music with people and there are still kids like me wandering into record stores and stumbling across albums that they dont realize will change their lives in short time. Art is cyclical… and I see great signs of hope for Jazz all the time in unsigned underground bands who are doing awesome Jazz oriented things with music.

I mean… It was only a couple years ago that Esperanza Spalding beat out Justin Beiber for best new artist (the first time a jazz artist has ever won that award)
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Old 03-14-2015, 08:26 AM
StuartDay StuartDay is offline
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and by the way… I dont think it's a generational thing at all. I think the young generations are contributing a heavy load to the Jazz scene right now.

Julian Lage and Esperanza Spalding are the two biggest names but there are tons of lesser known, unsigned, underground things going on right now that are killin it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_XJ_s5IsQc

This band is just one of the many I've come across over the years who are doing great things
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Old 03-14-2015, 09:05 AM
Joie2800 Joie2800 is offline
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IMO Jazz has over-intellectualized itself. It's evolved into such a complex form. I have tremendous respect for jazz musicians. They are an elite group. My son is an accomplished jazz trumpet player. His chops floor me!
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Old 03-14-2015, 02:09 PM
EoE EoE is offline
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it is based on album sales. which you can not judge the music industry by album sales.. how can you judge how much music is stolen.. albums are not made to sell anymore they are advertisement real money is in live shows.. that is how you judge.. and smooth jazz is doing well live. the music industry has changed so fast not even the experts know how to keep up. if rock is more popular why are most rock musicians paid about 200 a show if they make any money at all. a smooth jazz musician can pull 500 and upwards. even top acts have to tour to make money. people are making fewer requests on the radio because they can customize there own radio stations..smooth jazz radio stations are on the rise. and the most programed radio stations has a huge mix of music....the listeners in the us are getting more eclectic in what they listen to but for the most part prefer simple music....in the far east they want complicated music for advanced ears that is why MIB.. Steve vai and other great players make more money over there. recording studios cutting their fees, making it as a studio musician almost impossible any more. so my point is with the recording industry down the tubes basing the music industry on it is unrealistic.
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Last edited by EoE; 03-14-2015 at 02:25 PM.
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Old 03-14-2015, 11:59 PM
kkfan kkfan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StuartDay View Post

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_XJ_s5IsQc

This band is just one of the many I've come across over the years who are doing great things
Stuart,

The music that band is playing is way too electric for my taste. I like jazz to be more acoustic than that. I like "authentic" (for lack of a better term) instruments in the ensemble. So, what I would like to see is modern jazz bands doing great things acoustically, just the way it was done back in the day.

Of course, this is just my opinion.

Great story, by the way, about your path to discovering jazz. Thanks for sharing.
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Old 03-15-2015, 08:35 AM
StuartDay StuartDay is offline
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Originally Posted by kkfan View Post
Stuart,

The music that band is playing is way too electric for my taste. I like jazz to be more acoustic than that. I like "authentic" (for lack of a better term) instruments in the ensemble. So, what I would like to see is modern jazz bands doing great things acoustically, just the way it was done back in the day.

Of course, this is just my opinion.

Great story, by the way, about your path to discovering jazz. Thanks for sharing.
Well any purely acoustic guitar based music will have minimal record sales. That's nothing new really.

But that band is just one example off the top of my head. There are lots of more "acoustic" jazz musicians under 40 making waves right now. particularly a lot of horn and piano players.

But my main point is simply that I don't think the article posted here is much to worry about. Jazz is alive and I think it's doing relatively well when you look at how many cool jazz based groups are out there in the under 40 population.
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Old 03-15-2015, 09:48 AM
EoE EoE is offline
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authentic . is a poor term . at its conception experimentation was what jazz was all about fusing styles that is jazz.. if you only like one era then you really do not like jazz and do not understand jazz. jazz is a always moving forward thing drawing on what was good before and leaving the limited behind. staying out of the box. going backwards to the past is not jazz
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Last edited by EoE; 03-15-2015 at 09:56 AM.
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Old 03-15-2015, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
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It's a cycle. It will come back again, like it did in acid jazz days.
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