Binding Separation on New(ish) Martin

[rtb1969]

As a result, I will never buy another Martin

[budglo]

Originally Posted by Shaneh

This is a known issue on 2012-2016 martins. They used bad glue and they will eventually suffer from it. I have had 2 myself, gryphon repaired one and the other is still waiting. They told it was a when not an if scenario

That’s really interesting. I’ve been following this problem for some time . I have a 2013 D 18. So far there is no evidence of separation yet. Maybe I’m just lucky or it will take longer to present itself I guess.

[BeerBelly]

I have a 2015 CEO-7 that I love. Much to my dismay I noticed today that the back side binding at the waist, both sides, has started to separate from the wood. This is the same problem that I noticed on a 00-17S that I ordered on Reverb advertised in Mint condition. I got my money back for that one.

I spoke to a service rep at Martin and told him of my current problem and the fact that this is my second time dealing with this issue. He apologized that they only stand behind their warranty with the original owner and that they are aware of the binding issues with some models/years. He did not elaborate beyond that.

For the record, I am a hobbyist. I play this guitar at home and I baby it. This has not been caused by abuse or neglect. I am beginning to wonder if its worth it to dish out big bucks for "quality" guitars.

[AH Acoustic]

Edited by member.

[Scotso]

All mfgers screw up. I will buy a Toyota or other cars even though they have had recalls. Binding issues due to bad glue from 2011 or 12 to approx 2016 are danged minor in the scheme of things.

[ALBD]

Martin clearly makes good guitars that people love. Isn’t Martin making upwards of 100,000 guitars a year? That’s close to 30 guitars an hour (8 hour work day) unless my math is off—which is very possible. I’m not minimizing folks frustration or pretending to know how a company can or should avoid these occasional defects, but aren’t these types of QC glitches just the nature of the beast?

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by ALBD

Martin clearly makes good guitars that people love. Isn’t Martin making upwards of 100,000 guitars a year? That’s close to 30 guitars an hour (8 hour work day) unless my math is off—which is very possible. I’m not minimizing folks frustration or pretending to know how a company can or should avoid these occasional defects, but aren’t these types of QC glitches just the nature of the beast?

Not necessarily. Taylor makes a much greater number of instruments each year and doesn't seem to have this problem.

ANY manufacturer who chooses to use disparate materials takes a chance on this happening. In years gone by the waist binding separation was often due to shrinkage of the binding material; I owned a late 30's Epiphone Triumph that had loose waist binding, but it was obviously due to the binding shrinking.

The ultimate solution is for manufacturers to use wood binding, but that introduces a different set of problems and requires owners to be a bit more careful when handling their instruments. I've owned both a Lowden and a higher-end Larrivee with wood binding and loved it.

If any manufacturer wants to experiment with different types of glue or binding materials that's fine, but they should be willing to stand behind those decisions. That includes extending coverage for repair beyond the original owner.

[raysachs]

Originally Posted by ALBD

Martin clearly makes good guitars that people love. Isn’t Martin making upwards of 100,000 guitars a year? That’s close to 30 guitars an hour (8 hour work day) unless my math is off—which is very possible. I’m not minimizing folks frustration or pretending to know how a company can or should avoid these occasional defects, but aren’t these types of QC glitches just the nature of the beast?

In Martin's case, they had a well known problem with the glue they were using on bindings in the early teens into 2015/2016. I don't know if they ever admitted to a problem and they never honor warrantees for non-original owners, but they've evidently been really good about taking care of these for original owners. Since they changed glue sometime in 2015 or 16, it hasn't been any sort of regular issue.

And, yeah, the guitars were great anyway, and the fix was pretty cheap and easy even for those who ended up having to pay for it. Martin should have extended their warranty coverage to non-original owners on that issue, but it's a relatively small problem limited to a few years...

-Ray

[Scotso]

Originally Posted by raysachs

In Martin's case, they had a well known problem with the glue they were using on bindings in the early teens into 2015/2016. I don't know if they ever admitted to a problem and they never honor warrantees for non-original owners, but they've evidently been really good about taking care of these for original owners. Since they changed glue sometime in 2015 or 16, it hasn't been any sort of regular issue.

And, yeah, the guitars were great anyway, and the fix was pretty cheap and easy even for those who ended up having to pay for it. Martin should have extended their warranty coverage to non-original owners on that issue, but it's a relatively small problem limited to a few years...

-Ray

exactly...fixed under warranty for orig owners, cheap fix for non-orig. The problem does not devalue the guitar. They sound the same before and after the fix.

Say it together now- Martin screwed up...what a bunch of idiots OK,now? I feel better

Definitely not worth the xxxx number of threads on this issue.

[retsofekaj]

Originally Posted by Scotso

exactly...fixed under warranty for orig owners, cheap fix for non-orig. The problem does not devalue the guitar. They sound the same before and after the fix.

Say it together now- Martin screwed up...what a bunch of idiots OK,now? I feel better

Definitely not worth the xxxx number of threads on this issue.

It's worth the xxxx number of threads to me. It's nice as a prospective buyer to be able to confirm what I've seen with friends' Martins and display Martins, both online and in person, and what I've heard mentioned passingly in a local music shop, and what I asked an authorized Martin repair guy about advice on what decades of D18s to look out for.

If you don't want to wait for your new D18 to start delaminating, there's a display model reduced on Sweetwater that has already started. I'm gonna skip that one.

[otis66]

Is this binding issue with all Martin guitars or just the Standard series and up?

[jaymarsch]

This has been an ongoing issue with Martin for years now. It seems to wax and wane. I had my 1991 Martin M-38 with white plastic binding for 12 years and it was never in a low humidity environment. Martin did the repair under the original owner warranty in 2003.

Best,
Jayne

[Mr Bojangles]

I currently own several Martins and have had Martins for 50 years now. I had one binding separation on a 1998 D-28 that ended up costing me about $300 including return shipping, repaired at Nazareth.

I also own a few inexpensive Chinese acoustics and a couple of Seagulls. I'm wondering why they don't have binding issues? As much as I love Martin guitars, it seems like they have a problem that needs addressing.

[Scotso]

Originally Posted by Shaneh

This is a known issue on 2012-2016 martins. They used bad glue and they will eventually suffer from it. I have had 2 myself, gryphon repaired one and the other is still waiting. They told it was a when not an if scenario

While I think the time frame was a bit more compresses than this, it is a problem that keeps coming up over and over on AGF. And over. And over. Do not buy a 2014 Martin if worried about it. Other than that binding issues are common on older instruments. I have a 15 yr old Duff mando and 20 yr old Gibson with binding issues. It happens.

[UncleJesse]

Originally Posted by raysachs

In Martin's case, they had a well known problem with the glue they were using on bindings in the early teens into 2015/2016. I don't know if they ever admitted to a problem and they never honor warrantees for non-original owners, but they've evidently been really good about taking care of these for original owners. Since they changed glue sometime in 2015 or 16, it hasn't been any sort of regular issue.

And, yeah, the guitars were great anyway, and the fix was pretty cheap and easy even for those who ended up having to pay for it. Martin should have extended their warranty coverage to non-original owners on that issue, but it's a relatively small problem limited to a few years...

-Ray

Old post I know, but wanted to comment. I'm a big fan of Martin guitars. But the binding issue isn't always an inexpensive fix. On the 2015 CEO7 I had with loose binding I called around to about 4 shops in my area. None of them really showed interest in fixing it and that it would be costly because it would have to be removed from most of the guitar and new splice put in because it had shrunk and couldn't be pressed back into place. They all basically said several hundred dollars and it would show finish issues where it had been removed and reattached.