Need advice on recording acoustic guitar

[Cue Zephyr]

Yes, you're actually right, I didn't read enough about it. I just read it and remembered it. Sorry about that.

[Ty Ford]

Originally Posted by Ells84

Hi All,

I'm very keen to start recording some songs (original material and covers) but am unsure as to what gear I need. I am primarily a strummer and have a Martin M-36, not sure if that helps at all.

Many thanks.

I've never heard my Martin sound better than when recorded with a Schoeps cmc641.

Regards,

Ty Ford

[alohachris]

Aloha,

I agree with Ty, the Schoeps CMC641 hypercardioid professional mic is the best mic I've ever heard on acoustic guitar. Nearly everyone agrees that it is one of the top mics on the planet for acoustic and voice (interviewing) applications. I use my pair everyday.

But it also comes with a hefty professional price (for most guitar players). The basic set new is around $1750. A matched pair, preferred for stereo acoustic guitar apps., costs new near $4K. I got my set used for around $2K. So used may be the way to go. BUT, since you're just getting started, such a mic is probably not for you at this point.

If you don't want to spend that much, though I think it's worth it if you're a pro or very serious about recording guitar, then start auditoning mics. As Cue said, a pair of Michael Joly-modded OKtava MK-012, under $500, may be the best value for a stereo pair of S/D cardioid condenser mics. For an L/D condenser, check out a pair of ADK A6for under $500 new.

You have plenty of mic options. SO TRUST YOUR EARS! But it helps to know about some of the "BEST" that are out there. And the CMC641 is among them -for future reference.

But check out the usual sites for used values as well - for all mics OR preamps as well, which you'll need eventually.

BTW, what DAW/interface/computer/storage/monitors rig are you using?

alohachris

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by Ells84

...Do I need 2 or will one be sufficent for a decent recording?

I'm wondering if it would be worth purchasing an external pre-amp too? Also, I will be recording my girlfriend singing so will need a mic that can handle vocals too. ...

You can make good recordings with just one microphone. However, if you are going to record guitar and voice at the same time, I would recommend a pair of microphones.

I wouldn't buy an external preamp until you have tried using the microphones you select through the preamps built-in to the your Mackie mixer and have found them to be too noisy. Odds are you won't feel the need for the extra preamp.

Either the Rode NT5 or the Oktava MK-012 will produce fairly accurate voice recordings. However, most people prefer to use a large diaphragm microphone which rather than produce an accurate recording, produces one that enhances the sound of one's voice.

If you decide on the Oktava microphone, be sure to buy a Russian made one and not a Chinese counterfeit.

http://www.oktavausa.com/ProductsPages/MK-012MSP.html

http://www.oktavausa.com/Notices.htm

Inexplicably, even though you stated that you weren't looking for professional results, just something respectable that you could play to friends and family, a couple of people mentioned a Schoeps microphone that costs nearly $2,000. The difference in price between an NT5 and a CMC641 is far greater than the difference in performance. Both the Rode and Oktava mics are capable of producing professional quality recordings when used properly.

[Cue Zephyr]

Every one bit that a mic is better than another, the price is usually a couple times more.
The M179 would be an excellent choice as it is cheap and great. I still haven't received mine though, got one off eBay, a pre-owned (apparently never-used, complete with everything it originally came with), and saved a couple of bucks on both the mic and the shipping. If you want just one microphone at this moment, then the M179 would be an excellent choice.

[alohachris]

Aloha,

Your choices, such as for mics, will directly relate to what your recording signal chain is in its entirety. Think Rig, not just one part of it.

For example, in recording, I've learned that you have to take the mic-preamp into consideration, not only the mic. So what are you using?

In my experience, the Rode NT-5, although very clear, is too bright for my ears, as are MOST Rode mics, IMO. The modded Oktava would be a better choice.

alohachris

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by alohachris

Aloha,

Your choices, such as for mics, will directly relate to what your recording signal chain is in its entirety. Think Rig, not just one part of it.

For example, in recording, I've learned that you have to take the mic-preamp into consideration, not only the mic. So what are you using?

alohachris

This is a very good statement. I would add everything at the front end will have an influence on the sound. The style of play ( strum, picking, finger style etc.) the guitar, the mic, the preamp and if used eq, all will have a relatively significant impact on the signal on its way into the digital realm. an should be thought of as system or (rig). If your using the mic pre's on the Mackie VLZ, I personally found them to be on the bright side. So that should be taken into consideration when choosing mic's

[Ells84]

Thanks for all the advice everyone.

Aloha Chris, As I mentioned in an earlier post, I would be recording straight into my Mackie desk using the inbuilt pre-amps. I have a P.C. running Cubase SX (I can't remember the exact version but it's an old one) and I would record straight into that. I have a pair of Alesis M1 mk 2 monitors. That's it really, pretty basic. Anything else you need to know?

As I mentioned earlier I'm not looking for professional results, just something respectable, and my budget is modest. I'm not a pro musician....unfortunately!! I am ideally looking for an all round mic that can handle all the things I need it for so the M179 that Cue mentioned looks to be just what I need.

[alohachris]

Aloha Ells,

Was just curious about your rig in case I could help you with asking some questions. That's all.

So, M179-VLZ-A/D Converter/Interface?-PC-Cubase SX-Alesis Monitors

That would almost get you started. However, you will need a converter/interface to take the analog signal from your mixer and digitize it for your computer, & then back into analog for you monitors, right?

The kind you buy, may preclude even using the VLZ, which as has been mentioned above, is not that great for recording - amateur or pro (poor pre's for recording microphones). For example, some interfaces have really great mic preamps included. Some don't. You might want to research that. You don't have to spend much, but you will NEED an interface.

For example, do you plan to record more than one channel at a time?

Have you tried out the CAD M179 with your own ears yet? Because if you plan to use it for vocals, mics tend to be very "voice-specific." You should allow your voice the opportunity to choose its mic, BEFORE YOU BUY.

A trip to the music story to try out DAW rigs might also answer some questions for you in terms of how different interfaces work and sound.

BTW, with one 'do-it-all' mic, how would you, for example, be able to play and sing at the same time?

Therefore, you might want to also look at the S/D condenser mics mentioned above here for your guitar. A matched pair traditionally yields the best sonic results and are preferred by pro and amateur guitarists alike. But something like a used Oktava MK-012 with a used M179 would give you many more options, good results, and wouldn't break the bank. Lots of mic options. But one mic will NOT fit all your applications for recording, pro or amateur, my friend. That's the truth.

Check out the following sites for great info:

http://www.sweetwater.com/shop/studio/

Order a free catalog from Sweetwater Pro Audio. Lots of info. Also give them a call. They are very generous with home recording info, even if you don't buy. They can help with information about the compatibility of various elements of your rig - how they fit together electronically, for example.

http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2009/...-on-the-cheap/

Fran Guidry is a great guy and fine player with lots of info about home recording for less money, mics, video and music. The link above focusses on Room Treatment, which I believe is actually more important than the equipment for achieving the sound you're after in home recording. Here's how to do it cheaply.

IMPORTANT: Please do not put room treatment at the end of your list for priorities, no matter that you're not a pro. It's the key to maximizing whatever level of equipment you use. It's made a HUGE, HUGE difference as I get deeper into my recording project. The key words are.....Owens-Corning 703 rigid fiberglass insulation! Listen to Fran's before & after examples.

Ells84, I wish you all the best in your home recording. I'm just a beginner too in terms of digital home recording. But I'm really excited by it and am learning a lot. Just trying to pass on a few of the questions to ask and to help.

Have a great night, braddah!

alohachris

[Ells84]

Aloha Chris, thanks so much for all your advice, I really appreciate it and it's certainly given me plenty to think about. I didn't mean to come across as irate in my previous post, so sorry if it seemed that way. I think the best thing for me to do at this point is to visit my local music shop and get some advice from the musicians in there, hopefuly I can check out different mic options before I buy, as you suggested. Thanks again to everyone who has contributed to this thread.