Another Query about Frets.

[Silly Moustache]

Here's the story. I'm an acoustic player only. I preform mainly on 12 fret dreadnoughts all my the same maker - Collings.

Due to illness last year and this year, they got little usage as I couldn't even reach up to get the cases. My oldest dread - a 1998, which has been refretted at least three times. lastly with EVO frets in about 2010 which I thought was the last time.

After finally getting it out of the case - last summer I found that it was buzzing and not ringing clear.

Gave it to a very well respected local luthier (and really nice bloke) (no names) who gave it a full set up. Problem persisted. which he readily admitted. Search for loose braces, redid set up. Problem persists.

He determined that neck was very slightly twisted, suggested remove frets shot board and refret (using Collings supplied fretwire).
Problem persists but worse. This has been going on since May!

Noticed that new frets had rather flat tops )kinda pillow shaped - low ovalled crowns with rather sharp edges)

Q.1 - is this the usual fret profile for electric guitars -which is his main focus?

Queried with Collings Customer Service (always helpful, and referred to the only recommended luthier/tech in the UK

Took it (and another guitar) to them last week. Another gent with whom I have had dealings and trust and respect.

He said "needs a refret and plec set up!" -showed me a recently refretted guitar with frets crowned as I would normally expect.

I've left my two guitars with him - this is going to be expensive - plus costs of work done already.

Q2. This 20 year old guitar, is about to have its 5th refret! Can this job be done continuously?

Note: I am a flatpicker - not a thrasher. I use EJ17s, and prefer an action at 12th of .105" bass and .090" treble with a relief of .006/7" very slightly higher than Collings suggest. Strings usually last me 2-3 months.

Q3. I wear frets - but not really to "this" extent. Could all this be due to guitars being left in cases in RH which might have dropped to "25%" during last winter?

(My other guitars sometimes exhibit slight buzzing due to RH changes which I monitor (when in normal health) with hygrometers in the cases. I expect slight seasonal changes.

Q4. Am I missing something?

[mirwa]

A1 = This profile would be specific to the style of crowning tool the luthier uses, another luthier will have a different profile unless they are using the same crowning files and then they will be very similiar

A2 = Yep, guitars can be fretted lots and lots of times.

A3 = Nope, simply to do with the maturity of the woods used these days in manufacturing in conjunction with the skills of the luthier doing the refret

A4 = Nope, I reckon you have had a misfortunate time.

Add to this, your now getting it plek’d, shame because yes it will likely come up well this time, unfortunately the price is not justified IMO. A good tech can do it at a reasonable price.

There are techs and there are techs, problem these days that I see a lot of, people buy some tools from stewmac and setup shop with little to know knowledge of guitar repairs

One of the most recent funny’s, I had a customer do a setup course, showed him the process, his first time, 4 weeks later he was advertising himself as the guitar whisperer of setups. Bwahahaha..... guitar whisperer, love it.

Steve

[Bruce Sexauer]

Getting the fingerboard and fretting right is a technical issue, it is not magic and is really just a series of logical empirical steps that must go correctly. Mistakes early in the process can often be corrected down the line, but usually at some cost of ideal fret height or relief or saddle height (many others as well). PLEK is just another fret leveling system, and if earlier steps are not right PLEK results will not be satisfactory either.

Assuming good material choice and construction, which is usually a given on a Collings, the key “early step” is the leveling of the fingerboard BEFORE the frets go in. If this is done right the frets will require almost no dressing to achieve their ideal relative heights, and relief can be easily set with the truss rod.

There is a limit to how often the fingerboard can be dressed before it needs to be replaced. The fret slots need to be deep enough to hold the frets, and there needs to be some ebony left unslotted as well. The bridge height is dictated by the fingerboard thickness to some degree, and cannot be too low if the guitar is to sound right.

Also, because pulling frets in and and out does degrade the slots a bit every time it is done, there is a limit to how many times a fingerboard can be refretted, though in most guitars other issues come up before a fingerboard replacement.

In conclusion, it is virtually certain that you have had the bad luck to have not yet encountered a technician with a big picture view of the fret path, and the skill to implement it. IMO, of course.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer

In conclusion, it is virtually certain that you have had the bad luck to have not yet encountered a technician with a big picture view of the fret path, and the skill to implement it. IMO, of course.

It is rather puzzling.

The only other logical conclusion is that they have misdiagnosed the cause of the buzzing and all of the work done is irrelevant.

[LouieAtienza]

1 - It's very possible - with those flatter fret tops and your preferred higher action - that it could cause buzzing. that's because potentially the string could be fretting at the trailing edge of the fret instead of closer to the center. On an electric, putting a flatter dome on the frets does make them feel more comfortable moving along the neck, and theoretically would slow down wear a little. I actually prefer a "sharper" profile on my electric frets, but then again I personally don't wear my frets out that much - I have so many electrics in my rotation that I don't have the chance!

2 - Working anything constantly on a wooden instrument that relies on a mechanical interface of some sort will eventually degrade said interface. Of course, there are solutions for loose fret slots, such as tang crimpers, gluing the frets in, etc. Bruce makes a great point about fretboard thickness and saddle height above the soundboard. If I am not mistaken, Collings necks are bolt-on (with a glued down tongue) so a reset shouldn't be too painful.

3 - Maybe related to RH or other conditions in your area, periodically wiping down the frets and strings could potentially remove gunk and debris that could cause friction and frets to prematurely wear.