Looks like the Bourgeois/Eastman collaboration guitars - Touchstone - are shipping

[Mak2525]

Originally Posted by pagedr

I believe the plan was always for the Bourgeois logo to be on the headstock, but that the interior label would differentiate a Touchstone series from a fully US built Bourgeois.

Okay, so kind of like Paul Reed Smith and Paul Reed Smith SE offshore models?

[Tnfiddler]

Originally Posted by pagedr

I imagine the goal is to go after people who like the Bourgeois tone but can't afford a true Bourgeois, as well as Eastman fans who want something of slightly higher quality (not that Eastman are poor quality guitars, but these are clearly a step above their standard models).

So, I figured I'd just call Bourgeois themselves and get an answer to the confusion and your post is exactly what I was just told. His exact words were that they're targeting the folks who aren't financially able to get a Made in Lewiston Bourgeois, but want the Bourgeois quality, build and tone. He also said that discounting yearly increases, which every company does, the Made in Lewiston guitars are going to stay the same prices as they are now.

[pagedr]

Originally Posted by Tnfiddler

So, I figured I'd just call Bourgeois themselves and get an answer to the confusion and your post is exactly what I was just told. His exact words were that they're targeting the folks who aren't financially able to get a Made in Lewiston Bourgeois, but want the Bourgeois quality, build and tone. He also said that discounting yearly increases, which every company does, the Made in Lewiston guitars are going to stay the same prices as they are now.

I got something right!

[Rev Roy]

Originally Posted by Mak2525

OK, now I'm officially confused!

I've been following the Touchstone threads and maybe I missed it or misunderstood; I thought the Touchstone models were going to be Bourgeois branded overseas and TS branded in the states - to differentiate from the factory Bourgeois guitars here? Did that change or was that never the plan?

Originally Posted by Tnfiddler

So, I figured I'd just call Bourgeois themselves and get an answer to the confusion and your post is exactly what I was just told. His exact words were that they're targeting the folks who aren't financially able to get a Made in Lewiston Bourgeois, but want the Bourgeois quality, build and tone. He also said that discounting yearly increases, which every company does, the Made in Lewiston guitars are going to stay the same prices as they are now.

Dana explained all of this pretty clearly on his webpage a couple years ago. I posted it then…and given the confusion on this page I’ll post it again. You’re welcome. https://bourgeoisguitars.com/bourgeo...ration-update/

[zmf]

This interview from Fretboard Journal also has information about the Bourgeois/Eastman collaboration.

https://www.fretboardjournal.com/fea...es-of-guitars/

I also admit to being confused about the distinction between Bourgeois and Touchstone guitars. Is the only difference that, while Bourgeois supplies Eastman with some parts (like tapped tops), Touchstones are assembled in China? Any other structural differences (like bracing) between the two?

[srick]

Originally Posted by Tnfiddler

I still can't figure out who they're targeting with these guitars! If they sound or look no better than a similar Eastman, I think buyers will go for the Eastman. If they sound/look better than a similar "Made in Lewiston" Bourgeois, buyers are going to go for the Bourgman, which in turns makes me wonder what Dana is planning for his Maine-made guitars! Are they gonna raise prices and try to go more Custom-shop style guitars or what? It'll be interesting to see what the next couple of years brings to his upper-end guitars. If it's in the video, I'll delete this post later!LOL

Honestly, I’m sure they don’t know either. What catches on in the market is always a guess.

I’ll never forge when at a Guild event some ten years ago, I asked the Fender execs what their rationale was behind having their GAD line (Chinese) which was almost identical with the guitars being made in New Hartford. (Of course, the Chinese guitar was half the cost). Their thinking was the GAD would be an ‘entry level drug’ and create brand loyalty. Later on, they expected that the purchaser would want the higher level guitar.

Did it work? Who knows. Many manufacturers have that same business model, so empirically I have to conclude that it does work.

IMO, the company that got this right was Iris guitar. An all-American build that sounds great, but costs less and is unique. It does not compete with itself - it is similar to the custom guitars that Dale Fairbanks (Fairbanks Guitars) and Adam Buchwald (Circle Strings) make, but in no way could be mistaken for one of their guitars. They’ve created a lot of buzz and many satisfied customers. Similarly, Collings did this with the Waterloo line.

As far as the Touchstone line of Bourgeois Guitars, I think it’s too similar and will cut into their high end sales. But maybe the numbers will work. I’m sure that the finest accountants and marketers that could be found have justified the project and have created an extensive rationale of why it will be a smashing success.

Who knows? I’ll let you know in five years.

Rick

[llew]

Seems the price point falls right between a Reimagined D-18 and D-28 for either the OM or Dread. Same specs...just two different size guitars.

[Driftless]

Originally Posted by cc132

I share in the general confusion about these, especially after looking up the prices just now. These cost as much as a standard series Martin.

Bourgeois guitars cost a lot more than a standard series martin. Eastman guitars cost less. This is in the middle. Martin standard series sell well at this price point, so obviously there are plenty of guitar buyers to sell them to. I can't afford a bourgeois but I can afford more than an eastman. I might buy a standard martin, or this. If this is a bougeois top and the rest is eastman, I'd imagine it would rival a standard series martin.

[baw3]

And it might even sound better than a standard series Martin. Hey, and the binding might even stay on the guitar. Thats always a plus. That OM in the video sounds great. I can only imagine what it would sound like in person.

[cc132]

Originally Posted by Driftless

Bourgeois guitars cost a lot more than a standard series martin. Eastman guitars cost less. This is in the middle. Martin standard series sell well at this price point, so obviously there are plenty of guitar buyers to sell them to. I can't afford a bourgeois but I can afford more than an eastman. I might buy a standard martin, or this. If this is a bougeois top and the rest is eastman, I'd imagine it would rival a standard series martin.

I recognize that my brain maybe just hasn't caught up to modern times, but I just can't fathom paying as much for a guitar mostly built in China as for one built in Nazareth.

[zmf]

Originally Posted by srick

As far as the Touchstone line of Bourgeois Guitars, I think it’s too similar and will cut into their high end sales. But maybe the numbers will work.

Or maybe the boys in Maine can put enough magic into their guitars to warrant the price.

Or maybe there will be too much overlap in the things that count. I have a Bourgeois that would still be a great guitar even if it had a little less Maine magic.

I'm looking forward to a chance to A/B these two lines.

[carmona_nostra]

Originally Posted by pagedr

It's Touchstone, not TouchTone. I believe the plan was always for the Bourgeois logo to be on the headstock, but that the interior label would differentiate a Touchstone series from a fully US built Bourgeois.

Think of it this way, as the Road series is to Martin, the Touchstone line is for Bourgeois, except these Bourgeois guitars are assembled in SEA vs Martin who produces the Road in Mexico. I'm sure there are other differences, however in terms of the market, this is likely what they are going for.

[pagedr]

Originally Posted by carmona_nostra

Think of it this way, as the Road series is to Martin, the Touchstone line is for Bourgeois, except these Bourgeois guitars are assembled in SEA vs Martin who produces the Road in Mexico. I'm sure there are other differences, however in terms of the market, this is likely what they are going for.

Touchstone series guitars will sell for around $3k...Martin Road Series guitars are like $1k. I think their target markets are a bit different.

[carmona_nostra]

Originally Posted by pagedr

Touchstone series guitars will sell for around $3k...Martin Road Series guitars are like $1k. I think their target markets are a bit different.

With all due respect I think you are missing the point. Of course, we are not talking exact price point here. Simply the general concept of hitting a different market price point, as it pertains to having the guitar built elsewhere while retaining the logo on the headstock.

[Sadie-f]

Originally Posted by carmona_nostra

Think of it this way, as the Road series is to Martin, the Touchstone line is for Bourgeois, except these Bourgeois guitars are assembled in SEA vs Martin who produces the Road in Mexico. I'm sure there are other differences, however in terms of the market, this is likely what they are going for.

Beijing, in the northeast of China, is not southeast Asia.