Can't sing and Travis Pick

[pgopinath]

Some background: studied guitar in high school back in '73 for about a year.dropped it when the ladies got more interesting. I am now 62 and semi retired and picked up a guitar again this February. I am taking lessons every week with a great teacher, watch a lot of YouTube videos, have various books etc.

I got interested in Travis picking after hearing about Prines death earlier this year. I can Travis pick a few of his songs with most of Prines flourishes with the thumb running the bass line and three fingers managing strings 1-3.

i can accompany myself singing witn just the bass line chugging away. However everything just falls apart when I fold in the treble lines. The timing of the chord changes, coordinating with the down beats, and the different motions of thumb vs fingers gets all too complex for my brain to process while i am simultaneously trying to sing; Even a simple song like Speed of the Sound of Loneliness is too much to process.

I would appreciate any pointers as to how to progressively build up to some level of proficiency. I should add that I can comfortably Travis pick Clay Pigeons, Crazy As a Loon, Speed of the Sound of loneliness, Hello in There, all the way through with a metronome with not too many stumbles. But the moment I try to sing along a the whole structure crumbles.

Prabha

[catdaddy]

As a rule I need to be completely comfortable playing an entire piece instrumentally before I add vocals. When I say "completely comfortable" I mean that it requires almost no conscious thought on my part- just muscle memory on automatic pilot. When I reach that level of familiarity then the vocals come pretty quickly and without any breakdowns in my playing. YMMV

[reeve21]

Originally Posted by catdaddy

As a rule I need to be completely comfortable playing an entire piece instrumentally before I add vocals. When I say "completely comfortable" I mean that it requires almost no conscious thought on my part- just muscle memory on automatic pilot. When I reach that level of familiarity then the vocals come pretty quickly and without any breakdowns in my playing. YMMV

I have heard (or read) Stefan Grossman say the same thing.

But I hear the OP, there are tunes I can play pretty much on autopilot that I have a real hard time singing over.

As a suggestion to the OP, find one real simple tune that you can sing over. Like You are My Sunshine, where the guitar and vocal melody are in sync. Or My Creole Belle. Then your brain will know that it is possible.

It is a whole different thing than singing and strumming for sure, but it does improve over time with practice.

[pgopinath]

Thanks to all for the responses. I am definitely not at the auto-pilot stage yet. So practice, practice, practice!

Very rarely i find that everything has clicked for a phrase or two where i am singing and finger picking and everything is correct and synched up. There is a great wonderment when that happens.

[godfreydaniel]

I’ve noticed many performers simplify their picking to a simple vamp or repeating pattern while they’re singing.

[Mandobart]

pgopinath - can you flat pick or strum and sing at the same time or is this a challenge too? When I learned ages ago I started with just strumming the chords in the correct rhythm. Then I added the words. I got to where I could strum and sing just about anything. If you're not able to strum and sing simultaneously yet I'd say you're trying to run before you can walk or stand.

I did the same thing a little later with finger picking and singing. Of course I was about 13, with a plastic brain and rubber fingers and could spend several hours a day on it. It came in less than a year then.

At the time I listened to a lot of Eagles, Neil Young and John Prine. I knew their stuff inside out, frontwards and backward. I could sing/recite the lyrics to their songs subconsciously so that helped a lot.

I'd say number 1, know the song. Really know it, internalize it. Another helpful tip is try playing along with the song (record, CD, video, etc.). You'll screw up - just keep going.

Practice IMO should include stopping and correcting mistakes and powering through in equal measure.

[pgopinath]

[QUOTE=Mandobart;6563607]pgopinath - can you flat pick or strum and sing at the same time or is this a challenge too? When I learned ages ago I started with just strumming the chords in the correct rhythm. Then I added the words. I got to where I could strum and sing just about anything. If you're not able to strum and sing simultaneously yet I'd say you're trying to run before you can walk or stand.

I can flat pick and sing along with almost any song that is within my vocal range. I can walk up and down from chord to chord with no problem. I can modify strumming patterns to suit a particular mood I feel at the time I am singing.

BUT make the accompaniment finger picking and all the moving parts - thumb, fingers, voice, reading the chords etc - just muck up my limited abilities.

[davidbeinct]

I got a tip from Tom Feldman when I took an online lesson from him. He said that learning to sing while playing requires learning both at the same time. Even if you learn the piece to the point that you’re on auto pilot, when you go to sing along it’s like starting from square one. You might find you have to go back and sing and play a few measures at a time. I’ve been at least humming along when learning new pieces since that revelation. It really helps me internalize the guitar part too.

[raysachs]

If you can't sing AND Travis pick, you're doing OK. I can't sing OR Travis pick!

[Howard Emerson]

Originally Posted by pgopinath

Some background: studied guitar in high school back in '73 for about a year.dropped it when the ladies got more interesting. I am now 62 and semi retired and picked up a guitar again this February. I am taking lessons every week with a great teacher, watch a lot of YouTube videos, have various books etc.

I got interested in Travis picking after hearing about Prines death earlier this year. I can Travis pick a few of his songs with most of Prines flourishes with the thumb running the bass line and three fingers managing strings 1-3.

i can accompany myself singing witn just the bass line chugging away. However everything just falls apart when I fold in the treble lines. The timing of the chord changes, coordinating with the down beats, and the different motions of thumb vs fingers gets all too complex for my brain to process while i am simultaneously trying to sing; Even a simple song like Speed of the Sound of Loneliness is too much to process.

I would appreciate any pointers as to how to progressively build up to some level of proficiency. I should add that I can comfortably Travis pick Clay Pigeons, Crazy As a Loon, Speed of the Sound of loneliness, Hello in There, all the way through with a metronome with not too many stumbles. But the moment I try to sing along a the whole structure crumbles.

Prabha

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Record yourself playing whatever guitar part you know how to play.

Put the guitar down.

Press 'play', and while the recording of you playing is playing back, sing along with it.

THAT, is what it's suppose to sound like when you're playing and singing at the
same time.

Keep listening to it and singing along with it. Get used to feeling those syncopations that normally screw you up.

At some point you'll be able to play the part quietly, and at the same time hum the vocal along with it, and it will only get better from there.

You can do it.

Regards,
Howard Emerson

[pgopinath]

Howard: Thanks for that tip. I will try it out. I fear, though, that hearing what my singing sounds like, may put me off singing for good. That's one way to solve my problem.