Recommend a 'reasonably' price luthier for an all koa guitar?

[PTL]

Love to have some help.

I've not kept up with the solo luthier market, and many may be priced out of my range, but I figure it is worth an ask.

I'm looking for a luthier who has good success with building an all-koa guitar, and is 'relatively affordable.' I do not know what $ this would be in this day but am happy to be educated. The caveat is that I would ask for the luthier to use my Koa, though if he/she breaks a set, I would not hold the luthier accountable and would gladly send another piece to replace the broken piece.

The reason I'd like one built with my own Koa is that these I hold sentimental value to my wife and I, and they are of a quality that is difficult to find now. Back in the 1990s, representing some solo luthiers help put my wife and me through seminary. Back then, I think most had no idea that you could build a nice-sounding guitar with a Koa top but recently, I've heard some beautiful-sounding all-Koa instruments. I'd love to have one that is well-built - defined as having a great responsive tone that maximizes koa's properties.

What I have no longer sets that quite match the quality of the attached picture; it should still be close. I can vouch that every single guitar built from these Koa has been lightweight and very resonant.

This is not an offer to sell any of the Koa, as I don't have many, but I would love to have one built for me by someone experienced in all Koa guitars. I do realize that the luthiers back in the 1990s were happy to build with my woods because of the relationships built, and I do not have such relationships with any luthiers today, so most may be reluctant. However, I figure it is worth an ask here. My wife and I would find it meaningful to have a guitar with a connection back to our early married days. (And yes, we are still blissfully married. I married waaaay up... )

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

[colins]

Most builders work with koa for back and sides but only a few seem to build all koa guitars. I don’t know if there are any “tricks of the trade” to optimise the koa top or to match it with koa B&S; maybe one of our luthiers will chime in. In the absence of such knowledge, my tendency would be to seek a builder that has previous experience with all koa guitars

The only small builder I’ve come across that proactively builds all koa guitars is Goodall. Maybe their many years in Hawaii gave them a feel for the local wood?

Taylor build all koa guitars too, and they also have a custom shop. It’s interesting to compare these two makers for the sound they tend to get with their instruments. I’ve owned guitars by both and think of them as being quite different. You’re probably already on top of this but I’ll suggest it anyway: when you find a builder for consideration, make sure you play (and like!) their non-koa guitars before you commit to a custom build with that lovely koa of yours.

[Bruce Sexauer]

I have built several successful all-Koa guitars, and while I am almost certainly over your target budget, I will offer a bit of advice. Just because someone has made a few decent conventional guitars don't expect their first couple of all-Koa efforts to be up to snuff with their earlier work; all-hardwood guitars are a whole different ball of wax. Most I've played are over-built. Further, Koa's structural aspects are widely variable, so building to preconceived dimensions is going to be pretty hit and miss. Finding someone who already has a good track record with the genre is a really good idea.

[tadol]

Santa Cruz also has a very good track record building all-koa guitars -

[Jack852]

Check out forum member John Osthoff.

[John Osthoff]

Originally Posted by Jack852

Check out forum member John Osthoff.

Thanks for the shout out Jack852.

This is a timely thread as I am planning on starting an all Koa OM to bring to Laconner next May. I hope it will be ready on time as I have a ton of other stuff on the bench at the moment. Perhaps I can do a build thread on the all Koa for LaConner, although I am not all that great at consistent posting on any social media.

[Steve Kinnaird]

Just out of curiosity, what is a “reasonable” price in your thinking?
And best of luck with your project. That Koa pictured is lovely.

Steve

[mikealpine]

Originally Posted by Steve Kinnaird

Just out of curiosity, what is a “reasonable” price in your thinking?
And best of luck with your project. That Koa pictured is lovely.

Steve

This is always a great question because “reasonable” is relative. My guess is, if we paid these wonderful builders a “reasonable” hourly rate for their time, knowledge and skill, custom guitars would cost significantly more than they do.

[alohachris]

Aloha,

Whether building all-Koa or B&S Koa guitars, a luthier must build a ton of Koa instruments to master the finicky species' huge density differences, even in the same flitch.

I contend that most Mainland luthiers, with exceptions, don't consistently make enough Koa guitars to have that Koa expertise & knowledge to maximize them. And they usually only make all-Koa guitars for use in their marketing literature - for visuals alone.

So, who has that Koa expertise?. The guys who use Koa on most of their instruments. And they all live in the Islands.

The Island luthier I know who may have what you are looking for is the locally-acclaimed Rolo Scheurenbrand. I know him, I love the sound, designs & woodwork of his guitars & ukes & he absolutely has the best stash of instrument-grade Koa among individual luthiers. Check Rolo out here:

https://www.koaguitars.com

Rolo is a serious, mature perfectionist with very high standards. Yet, I think his guitars are very affordable for luthier-made guitars. A great guy too.

There are several luthiers in Hawaii who could build you a great all-Koa guitar. Get back to me if you want the full list.

On the high-end side, over on Maui, Steve Grimes makes great guitars with very original designs & appointments. Check him out too:

https://grimesguitars.com

On the Big Island (in Kohala), I recommend longtime local builder David Gomes. He really knows how to work Koa & other local woods & has built hundreds of all-Koa guitars & ukes.:

http://www.gomesguitars.com/Site/Welcome.html


Bob Gleason is another great veteran Big Island (Hilo side) Koa Lawe (woodworker) who has built hundreds of great all-Koa instruments at very reasonable prices:

https://www.instagram.com/bobgleason...guitars/?hl=en

Mainland shops that really know Koa are James Goodall (Used to operate from Kona, Santa Cruz & Froggy Bottom. But the latter two are more expensive because of their shop overhead. James Goodall & son makes great all-Koa guitar models.

Anyway, start with Rolo. Good Luck with the search for a luthier who really knows how to work Hawaiian acacia Koa.

alohachris

PS: Each of the solo luthiers listed, usually makes Koa guitars that are flitch-matched, which means all the pieces are from consecutive pieces (slices) in a flitch. That DOES make a difference in tone & of course, visually too. All the luthiers listed milled their lifetime supplies of Koa decades ago.

Most luthiers on the Mainland do not mill their own Koa from logs but buy sets from suppliers. So they try to match the pieces for visuals mostly. That DOES make a difference in tone as well.

Luthiers Gotta have enough access to a wide variety of dense Koa to maximize & understrand it fully. Because of Koa's high cost & lack of availability (for choke curl), they cannot reject, or flitch-match a lot of the Koa they buy. Veteran Island luthiers have plenty of Koa because most of their guitars & ukes are made of Koa. They have Koa knowledge. Check it out!-alohachris

[runamuck]

I haven't played too many all koa guitars - maybe 3 - but I played a Taylor all koa that was one of the best sounding guitars I've ever heard and that's compared to several Sexauers and a couple pre-war Martin OMs as well as a half-dozen of my favorites from boutique builders.

[PTL]

Originally Posted by runamuck

I haven't played too many all koa guitars - maybe 3 - but I played a Taylor all koa that was one of the best sounding guitars I've ever heard and that's compared to several Sexauers and a couple pre-war Martin OMs as well as a half-dozen of my favorites from boutique builders.

Interesting. Which model Taylor all Koa? Thanks for sharing.

Did you purchase that guitar? Given how good it was to you, seems like a loss to not own that instrument.

[PTL]

Thank you ALL for taking time to reply, and especially AlohaChris.

Keep the comments coming. Much grateful.

[John Osthoff]

Aloha Chris,

Thank you for your post.

While I don’t disagree with the idea of someone who uses Koa more often than others may have an advantage over some just based on experience. I am sure sourcing the Koa right at the source has it advantages too. Does one have to live in Hawaii to make great Koa guitars? With that thinking, I guess that Traugott doesn’t make great guitars since Jeff does not live in Brazil
.
If I were still playing guitar as often as I once did, I might seek out one of Grime’s guitars. I doubt it would be an all-Koa model but perhaps a Rosewood/Spruce model. Oh, but wait, Steve lives in Hawaii so I wonder how he can source the Rosewood or Spruce. I guess he is no longer on my list unless I want a Koa guitar.

If I were in the market for a Uke (I am not,) I would definitely check out Bob Gleason. That said, I would not discount others because they do not live in Hawaii. My buddy Bruce Petros (and his son Matt) are doing some wonderful stuff with Ukes and they would be very high on my list.

I get most of my Red Spruce from a tonewood guy here in the Northeast. I often go to the sawmill where he cuts his logs. I have never bought the wood directly from billets right off the saw, but prefer to wait until he has processed them back at his shop. I can better evaluate the tops when they are cut to size. I do like the mojo of going to the sawmill, but I don’t think that I gain any advantage of going to the mill and rather wait to choose his wood after it is processed.

When I purchase Koa, I get it from different sources. I have purchased directly from Bob Gleason who I have hung out quite a few times (although it has been years since I have seen him.) Other suppliers I have dealt have gone right to the source (Hawaii) to get their Koa supply and yes, I can get flitch matched if I desire.

I would like to hear more about the better tone by using same flitch. I personally don’t want my top and back to be too close to each other in “tonal” characteristics. With that thinking, a Spruce/Brazilian guitar would sound like crap. My process (which I won’t delve into too deeply here) uses a bunch of measurements for determining thickness and bracing. One measurement that is important to me is the cross-grain stiffness vs. the long-grain stiffness. I will make adjustments on thickness and bracing based on this ratio, but not that alone. I do the same for the back. I don’t want the resonant frequency of the back and top to match as that causes problems such as wolf tones.

As I am always eager to learn, I would very much like to hear more about how the flitch match DOES make a difference in tone.

Thanks again for the post

[jmat]

Originally Posted by tadol

Santa Cruz also has a very good track record building all-koa guitars -

+1 on this. I played some SC all Koas, and, separately, all Mahogany, that were well done. I hadn’t played many all hard wood guitars and was pleasantly surprised. I am sure chris’s suggestions are great. I imagine it is hard to find a good selection of guitars to demo…good luck!

jm

[Zandit75]

Originally Posted by PTL

Interesting. Which model Taylor all Koa? Thanks for sharing.

Did you purchase that guitar? Given how good it was to you, seems like a loss to not own that instrument.

More than likely he's talking about the Taylor K24CE.
I've played the V-Braced Builders Edition, and would have taken it home but for the fact I was about to build my own guitar.
Absolutely beautiful.


Certainly not trying to take anything away from the luthiers here, it's just the only one I've had the opportunity to play!