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  #46  
Old 03-23-2021, 06:46 PM
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Smile Yowza!!!

That Maple is insane! Han, you may have a side career as a wood sourcer...

Now I am officially jealous. Hahahaha

This instrument is going to Kick some .... thing

Salud

Paul
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  #47  
Old 03-23-2021, 06:59 PM
Hanter Hanter is offline
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Originally Posted by Guitars44me View Post
That Maple is insane! Han, you may have a side career as a wood sourcer...

Now I am officially jealous. Hahahaha

This instrument is going to Kick some .... thing

Salud

Paul

Hanter Wood Hunter, how about that.

I can’t stop myself from looking at woods anyway. If anyone wants some special woods for their build, hit me up! Provided your luthier allows it, of course.
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  #48  
Old 03-23-2021, 09:10 PM
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Wow, I for sure have never seen maple quite like that. Holy cow!
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  #49  
Old 03-24-2021, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by BenjaminPaldacci View Post
Lucky Strike Redwood, is an incredible tonewood. I've never seen/touched anything like it.

Those soundboards are insanely great, you are a lucky man!
Thanks for chiming in Ben! I am indeed a Lucky man, to have the opportunity to own something like that. I really liked your post on Lucky Strike on Instagram last year, frankly was very inspired by it. You are building some very awesome instruments and I hope to play them one day, perhaps at the BIG!

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Originally Posted by TomB'sox View Post
Wow, I for sure have never seen maple quite like that. Holy cow!
Coming from someone like you Tom, that is high praise indeed! Now we gotta figure out how to cut it up and which sections to use for what. Its life as a droptop was not meant to be.
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  #50  
Old 03-24-2021, 09:30 AM
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Smile Your new handle?

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Originally Posted by Hanter View Post
Hanter Wood Hunter, how about that.

I can’t stop myself from looking at woods anyway. If anyone wants some special woods for their build, hit me up! Provided your luthier allows it, of course.
Sign me up. With John's permission and approval

That maple is so FINE

This axe will RAWK

Paul
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Jumbo OLD Brazilian RW/WRC

R.T 2 12c sinker RW/Claro
96 422ce bought new!
96 LKSM 12
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  #51  
Old 03-24-2021, 10:13 AM
BenjaminPaldacci BenjaminPaldacci is offline
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Originally Posted by Hanter View Post
Thanks for chiming in Ben! I am indeed a Lucky man, to have the opportunity to own something like that. I really liked your post on Lucky Strike on Instagram last year, frankly was very inspired by it. You are building some very awesome instruments and I hope to play them one day, perhaps at the BIG!
Oh sweet, I am glad you enjoyed this post!

Yeah, I have 3 other soundboards of this incredible redwood (not broken this time ), and it is such a precious material!

Yes, It would be sweet to cross our path at BIG, definitely! It will be so much fun for visitors & Luthiers! Thanks for your kind words!
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  #52  
Old 03-25-2021, 01:36 PM
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John reported that the African Blackwood ate up 3 pieces of sandpaper just to get one side thinned. Oops. Apparently the excess resins also get hot and gum up the sandpaper.

But on a happier note, the sides bent really nicely and held the bend very well. Really stiff after they cooled.



Hand-bent with Greybeard mock-up lurking in the background.



We will not be going with double sides for this build. John feels that he wants to keep the dalbergias “pure”. In my limited experience I do agree that non-double-sided-dalbergia-guitars have a tad of richness and complexity associated with them, more so than those who have. There will be, however, fully solid laminated linings.
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  #53  
Old 03-26-2021, 03:31 AM
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I’m about ready to throw away my bending forms with heating blanket and press. They have not been used in my shop for the last 30 guitars or so. I bend everything by hand now, even the laminated lining. Not sure why I’ve reverted other than to say that it’s more satisfying to have that tactile feel for what the wood wants to do and i usually would have to go back and do touch up on the hot iron after using the press and form anyway.

Regarding double sides, I’m convinced the sides are part of the sound system, though a minor part, and their “tap tone” should be regarded. Depending on the wood being used, some sides benefit acoustically from lamination and some do not. There are no acoustic benefits from doubling dalbergia sides. There may be structural benefits, probably are from an engineering point of view, but this is one of those areas where structural concerns and acoustic concerns need to be balanced.
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  #54  
Old 03-26-2021, 08:11 AM
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OK, I am confused then. No double sides to keep the sound pure, but then what will the laminated linings be and is that not the same as laminating more blackwood for double sides???
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  #55  
Old 03-26-2021, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by j. Kinnaird View Post
I’m about ready to throw away my bending forms with heating blanket and press. They have not been used in my shop for the last 30 guitars or so. I bend everything by hand now, even the laminated lining. Not sure why I’ve reverted other than to say that it’s more satisfying to have that tactile feel for what the wood wants to do and i usually would have to go back and do touch up on the hot iron after using the press and form anyway.

Regarding double sides, I’m convinced the sides are part of the sound system, though a minor part, and their “tap tone” should be regarded. Depending on the wood being used, some sides benefit acoustically from lamination and some do not. There are no acoustic benefits from doubling dalbergia sides. There may be structural benefits, probably are from an engineering point of view, but this is one of those areas where structural concerns and acoustic concerns need to be balanced.

Thoughtfully said John!
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  #56  
Old 03-26-2021, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by TomB'sox View Post
OK, I am confused then. No double sides to keep the sound pure, but then what will the laminated linings be and is that not the same as laminating more blackwood for double sides???
It’s a matter of degree. Almost all sides whether doubled or not have linings. In my opinion, letting the wood age in its most natural state will pay dividends over the long haul. that is why I don’t laminate the back though i do glue on braces. It might be fine to make double sides out of two layers of blackwood but i cannot afford that, and there’s the matter of the glue which forms part of the structure and which might not be the most resonant part of the side system. I have no data to back up my opinion. I simply am going on a gut feeling that keeping the sides as “pure” as possible without adding the complexity of a glue line, will make a better sounding guitar over time plus I do like to keep the dalbergias as unadulterated as possible. There are a lot of variables when using other woods. Some woods that are not as hard or resonant as the dalbergias could have their resonance improved by laminating.

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Thoughtfully said John!
Thank you sir.
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  #57  
Old 03-26-2021, 05:15 PM
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Smile Interesting!

At this Point I would go with your gut feelings, myself.

I love that you're doing more and more stuff by hand, and I'm glad you're enjoying it too!

Carry-on and have fun

Paul
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3 John Kinnaird SS 12c CUSTOMS:
Big Maple/Cedar Dread
Jumbo Spanish Cedar/WRC
Jumbo OLD Brazilian RW/WRC

R.T 2 12c sinker RW/Claro
96 422ce bought new!
96 LKSM 12
552ce 12x12

J. Stepick Bari Weissy WRC/Walnut

More
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  #58  
Old 03-26-2021, 05:48 PM
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OK, I guess I am just confused by what the linings as I was thinking they are bent the same as the sides and are glued together with the sides, but maybe I am not getting it. Sorry, do not mean to hijack the thread.
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  #59  
Old 03-26-2021, 07:39 PM
Hanter Hanter is offline
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Originally Posted by TomB'sox View Post
OK, I guess I am just confused by what the linings as I was thinking they are bent the same as the sides and are glued together with the sides, but maybe I am not getting it. Sorry, do not mean to hijack the thread.

Tom, no worries, you didn’t hijack anything. I read and reread and my conclusion is that this is a case of misunderstanding in terminologies. Again, a picture says a thousand words!

Here are the laminated linings for the top edge of the sides.



You will also notice a raw Spanish Cedar heel block and Maple neck block here. The soundport veneer is also in Maple.



Tada! Laminated lining for top, treble side only. Material used is Honduran Mahogany.

So, I guess some refer to the second piece of veneer used in double sides as the laminated “lining” while John refers to the above as the linings, which I believe are also called kerfings.

Hope I haven’t brought more confusion to the table!
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Last edited by Hanter; 03-26-2021 at 07:45 PM.
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  #60  
Old 03-26-2021, 08:35 PM
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Smile Kerfing the linings...

I believe linings can be solid or kerfed, or reverse kerfed! Confused yet? Haha

When the linings have many cuts most of the way through they are "kerfed"

Usually the thin solid part will attach to the sides, but some folks reverse them and put the cuts next to the sides. Reverse is apparently more rigid.

John usually uses solid (non kerfed) linings except under the bevels. These are even more rigid.

And double or even triple sides are also used by some builders to stiffen the sides even more. Plenty of ways to skin the proverbial cats...

So, did my recent JK PABLO have double sides? I do not recall from the thread!

Whatever John did is certainly working as it is the best yet!

This will certainly do the job, too...

Cheers

Paul
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3 John Kinnaird SS 12c CUSTOMS:
Big Maple/Cedar Dread
Jumbo Spanish Cedar/WRC
Jumbo OLD Brazilian RW/WRC

R.T 2 12c sinker RW/Claro
96 422ce bought new!
96 LKSM 12
552ce 12x12

J. Stepick Bari Weissy WRC/Walnut

More
Reply With Quote
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