General Observations from Woodstock (WILS)

[The Bard Rocks]

This time I spent more time listening to demos than playing. Here are some general observations; you draw whatever conclusions you feel are merited. They are not in any particular order and are not meant to demean or endorse anything. Just things I noticed. What caught your attention might differ.

1) The music I heard from the demonstrators was mostly light jazzy stuff or what I call "modern fingerstyle", a style which emphasizes beautiful sounds over melodies that you can hum along with. Very little music that had fast playing throughout the piece. And not so much that had driving sustained rhythms. No fiddle tunes, Appalachian, bluegrass and very little ragtime, blues, or classical, which is somewhat surprising as these are popular forms of music here.

I of course could not catch every demo performance. (What I heard among the visitors trying out guitars or from the featured performers was not the same.)

2) Of the guitars on display, I saw one left handed one, one 12 string, and if you don't count classical guitars (there were a small few) only a couple of slotheads. Except for the Beard table, there were no other resophonics that I noticed.

3) A definite majority displayed had cutaways.

4) Only a very few had colored pickguards, more had clear ones. But far more had none.

5) I didn't notice a single performer anchor their pinkie. Interesting.

6) Most performers played seated and hardly any of them sang. Yet most people who will end up buying these guitars intend to sing with them.

7) I visit the websites that feature all handmade guitars and find Brazilian dominates the offerings. Definitely not so here. I can't say any one wood was dominant in what was offered. Definitely proportionately less mahogany and rosewood than you see in stores, which is isn't so surprising when you think of it.

8) Of the players on stage, almost none used flatpicks and very few used fingerpicks. Flesh and nails definitely dominated.

9) Almost none of the guitars on display had pickups installed. And (thankfully) there were no barn doors.

What general things did you notice?

[mikealpine]

While I didn’t observe with the detailed eye you have, reading through your list, I agree with much of what you said. I also found some of the players doing demos were better at the demo piece than others. They all played well, but a few actually spoke about the woods, the feel, differences they noted in models they were demoing from that builder. Dustin Furlow, for example, went into detail about each of the three Urlacher guitars he played, and it was really informative. He also sang, as well as played a little with a pick, strumming, though predominantly finger style.

I also believe the skills of the demo players are greater than that of many of the attendees, with no disrespect intended. I easily add myself into the lesser skilled category, being mostly a basic and barre chord strummer that sings. So while it was lovely to listen to the demos, I couldn’t relate to how those guitars would sound in my hands. Then again, that’s what the quiet rooms are for.

So many guitars are now in the 5-figure range, with a few topping $30K. Custom guitars are getting too rich for me and my strum-and-sing skills.

Very few dreadnoughts or even dread-like guitars were around. Mark Hatcher’s model was gorgeous, and there were a few Mod-D models around, but most were more curvy and in many cases, smaller.

Benoit Lavoie (Ben) was one of the happiest builders, so proud of his work, justifiably. I played a very cool baritone model and another he brought, both with his adjustable neck, and both were a pleasure to play.

I think that’s it for me.

[Jwills57]

Hey, The Bard Rocks--Thanks for the insights. Got a kind of funny story for you that relates to your point #1. I attended Mark Hanson's Accent On Music Camp for many summers in Portland, Oregon. I think the second, maybe third summer I was there Tommy Emmanuel was one of the instructors. He's a beautiful human being and obviously an amazing guitarist. We were in small groups. First day of instruction our group of five or six filed in to the room where Tommy had been assigned. We all sat down and he stood up, walked over to the white board and wrote in big letters--What Happened to the Melody, Stupid? I've never forgotten that little gem of wisdom.

[The Bard Rocks]

Originally Posted by mikealpine

While I didn’t observe with the detailed eye you have, reading through your list, I agree with much of what you said. I also found some of the players doing demos were better at the demo piece than others. They all played well, but a few actually spoke about the woods, the feel, differences they noted in models they were demoing from that builder. Dustin Furlow, for example, went into detail about each of the three Urlacher guitars he played, and it was really informative. He also sang, as well as played a little with a pick, strumming, though predominantly finger style.

I also believe the skills of the demo players are greater than that of many of the attendees, with no disrespect intended. I easily add myself into the lesser skilled category, being mostly a basic and barre chord strummer that sings. So while it was lovely to listen to the demos, I couldn’t relate to how those guitars would sound in my hands. Then again, that’s what the quiet rooms are for.

So many guitars are now in the 5-figure range, with a few topping $30K. Custom guitars are getting too rich for me and my strum-and-sing skills.

Very few dreadnoughts or even dread-like guitars were around. Mark Hatcher’s model was gorgeous, and there were a few Mod-D models around, but most were more curvy and in many cases, smaller.

Benoit Lavoie (Ben) was one of the happiest builders, so proud of his work, justifiably. I played a very cool baritone model and another he brought, both with his adjustable neck, and both were a pleasure to play.

I think that’s it for me.

This is a point (your first paragraph) which I would insist upon were I a builder. You are paying them to demo your creations not to just entertain. So some words about the guitar, what it is, how it is built, what you like about it, what makes it different, what they are hearing and feeling as a player -those sort of things are in order.

Benoit is fun to observe; he gets SO excited. And you are right, I could have added the lack of dreads to my observations.

[rule18]

I made a few of those observations as well (both Bard and Mike). My thought on the lack of Dreads is that it's likely cyclical based on ordering/buying trends and/or a function of who's doing the bulk of the ordering. We read a fair amount about shoulder vs dread, so maybe that's a thing.

Mike's point re pricing is not lost on me. Although I understand and appreciate the POV, I think about the other side as well. I would ask what a craftsman's time and expertise are worth, and how many of these high quality handmade creations can one make per year? If one is really talented enough to earn a living by being a luthier, then by all means they should charge for it. We could get into the distinctions between a $15k and $25k price tag, but I suspect that's where this comes off the rails LOL.

Just my .02c. That and another five digits gets me a super cool custom build!

[TomB'sox]

When we do demos, the demonstrators always talk about the build, woods, size, design and then usually ask the builder to say a few words as well before playing it. I think that is a really nice thing as well, the builders are almost always there and enjoy getting a chance to discuss their ideas and goals with that particular guitar.

[John Osthoff]

Thanks, Rolland, for the observations. It was great to see you and catch up in person.

I guess I would like to respond to a few of your comments from (this) builder’s perspective. At these shows, I have 16 square feet to display guitars. What I try to bring to the show is something that is representative of what I build but also stands out from the crowd a little bit. Sometimes it comes down to what I have on hand.

Building a left-handed guitar on speculation is a bit of a gamble. With less than 10% of players wanting a left-handed guitar it is a small market share. Of that 10% only a small amount of them are looking for a custom acoustic guitar. On the other hand, having the only left-handed guitar at a show could be a bonus. The nut/saddle “system” I use does not require me to “tilt” the saddle for compensation. My bracing/voicing does not have a bass side and treble side. I can convert a non-cutaway from a right-handed guitar to a left-handed guitar by simply replacing the nut and saddle.

Regarding cutaways, I don’t think I put a ton of energy into deciding if want to bring a guitar with a cutaway to the show. My SJ model comes standard with a cutaway and normally my OM’s don’t. For this year’s show, I had an SJ and an OM which currently are my most popular models so one with and one without.

Regarding pickguard, I most often don’t put them on. It can always be added if desired. The same goes with electronics/pickups. They can also be added later on.

Mike, justifying paying some of the top dollar for a custom instrument is very individualized. For my playing which has deteriorated so much because of the lack of play time, I would have a hard time “justifying” a multi-thousand-dollar guitar. I don’t own a thousand-dollar golf club so that I can drive the ball a few feet further into the woods. I know I will never be a great golfer even if I played a lot but if golf were “my thing” I would want some of the best equipment. Same goes for playing guitar, I will never be great but if it became “my thing” (again) I would want to have awesome gear to inspire me.

I was trying to finish up a couple of my Vintage Series guitars for the show that would have included a D-28. Unfortunately, the finish was not quite ready in time. On all my guitars I am trying for a very thin finish but that brings the challenge of not sanding or buffing through. I could have really pushed to try to get the Vintage Series guitars completed in time, but it goes against my philosophy of “you can’t(shouldn’t) rush a finish.” More to come on the Vintage Series soon.


(Oh and Mark's guitars are beautiful and Benoit is one of my favorite people on the planet. His enthusiasm oozes out of every pore.)

I got to say it was honor to be at the very first Woodstock Show and most of them since. While I don’t think this will be the last Woodstock show, Baker is retiring from being our fearless leader. Assuming that someone can keep the vibe of this show going, I am sure Baker will pass the torch and take a well deserved retirement form the show. It was a total honor to be part of all of the shows and especially this one.

[IndianHillMike]

Originally Posted by The Bard Rocks

6) Most performers played seated and hardly any of them sang. Yet most people who will end up buying these guitars intend to sing with them.

I find this to be a super interesting observation and I'm very glad you made it! Early on in my career I sold a guitar to a fantastic local musician with incredible fingerstyle chops that's also a great singer. Around the same time, he also got a guitar from a very well established builder that, literally, was 10 times the cost of mine and is a phenomenal "modern fingerstyle" guitar. But, he never plays that one! There's just "too much going on" to sing over and it doesn't mix well with other instruments. I find it interesting that there's often a desire for loud, rich, overtone heavy guitars that can be great for solo fingerstyle, but, in my opinion, don't really work for how a large portion of guitar players will use them. Malcolm Gladwell has an interesting anecdote about the difference in people's stated preference for coffee (dark, rich, robust, etc.) compared to what taste tests show people actually prefer (milder, with cream, sugar, etc.). I think something very similar is at play in the guitar market. The one time I performed my own demo concert at a show, I made sure to do fingerstyle (both rag-timey and more smooth melodic), flatpick, strum, and sing!

[Jeff Mc]

I have not been to one of the major guitar shows for a long time. We did go to Healdsburg twice about 20 years ago and I think the OP’s observations would be the same. If there were 200 guitars, I would be surprised if there were 5 dreads. It seems the vast majority of guitars were for finger style players. I had spousal ok to buy a guitar and put a $5k limit on myself (remember this is 20 years ago). There were not many to choose from. Did find a great guitar from Tony Vines. When we returned 2 years later the under $5k guitars were even more scarce.
,

[iim7V7IM7]

A couple thoughts....

Demonstrations at shows, while sometimes entertaining will tell you very little about how a guitar will perform in your hands. You need to play them yourself. The show performers are all talented, paid, "hired guns" who are paid to demonstrate and promote. Sometimes they have prior relationships and knowledge about a builder's work and sometimes nothing beyond a short pre-performance discussion/audition.

How a capoed guitar in Drop D or Nashville tuning played by a prolific fingerstyle artist is entertaining musically, but means NOTHING to my style of playing. I need to take a guitar, find a quiet place and spend a few minutes playing it. I can learn more hearing a simple strummed or arpeggiated C major 7 chord at the 1st, 3rd, 5th, 8th, 10th and 13th frets about the balance and timbre of an instrument than I can hearing some impressive fingerstyle arrangement through a microphone amplified through a PA system. Even unamplified, a guitar will sound different to a player than an audience.

Shows like WILS are about meeting the builders, sampling their work yourself and attending some educational seminars or concerts. I have always viewed the concerts as entertainment and never have viewed them as anything else.

I do think that there is a perceived general market trend in custom flattop guitar luthiery that Roland rightly pointed out that most clients are assumed to play fingerstyle and without a plectrum and play seated, not standing. Singer/songwriters, strummers, folk, rock, bluegrass, blues or jazz players are part of the equation but are not the "center of the plate" at these events.

Regarding what builder's bring to the show, much of what is displayed are client guitars either being delivered or sometimes loaned past client guitars. There are some spec guitars available for sale. Spec guitars are what the builder thinks will sell (based on popular size, wood, features, price) or an over-the-top "eye catcher" to make them stand out in a crowd of their peers.

Most importantly, WILS 2023 was a great show and it was great to see some old friends (builders and players) and to make a few new ones.

Originally Posted by The Bard Rocks

This time I spent more time listening to demos than playing. Here are some general observations; you draw whatever conclusions you feel are merited. They are not in any particular order and are not meant to demean or endorse anything. Just things I noticed. What caught your attention might differ.

1) The music I heard from the demonstrators was mostly light jazzy stuff or what I call "modern fingerstyle", a style which emphasizes beautiful sounds over melodies that you can hum along with. Very little music that had fast playing throughout the piece. And not so much that had driving sustained rhythms. No fiddle tunes, Appalachian, bluegrass and very little ragtime, blues, or classical, which is somewhat surprising as these are popular forms of music here.

I of course could not catch every demo performance. (What I heard among the visitors trying out guitars or from the featured performers was not the same.)

2) Of the guitars on display, I saw one left handed one, one 12 string, and if you don't count classical guitars (there were a small few) only a couple of slotheads. Except for the Beard table, there were no other resophonics that I noticed.

3) A definite majority displayed had cutaways.

4) Only a very few had colored pickguards, more had clear ones. But far more had none.

5) I didn't notice a single performer anchor their pinkie. Interesting.

6) Most performers played seated and hardly any of them sang. Yet most people who will end up buying these guitars intend to sing with them.

7) I visit the websites that feature all handmade guitars and find Brazilian dominates the offerings. Definitely not so here. I can't say any one wood was dominant in what was offered. Definitely proportionately less mahogany and rosewood than you see in stores, which is isn't so surprising when you think of it.

8) Of the players on stage, almost none used flatpicks and very few used fingerpicks. Flesh and nails definitely dominated.

9) Almost none of the guitars on display had pickups installed. And (thankfully) there were no barn doors.

What general things did you notice?

[lfarhadi]

I attended Friday only.

The highlights for me were:
1. Finally meeting Isaac (after 5 years of calls and texts!)
2. Tony McManus honoring my shout of request to play Shalom Aleichem
3. Getting some advice from Dustin on ergonomics and electrics

Some of the other performances that stuck with me was Dustin's arrangement of Moondance and Mark Lemaire's Whiter Shade of Pale.

The instruments on display were of course superlative, but I don't find the environment conducive to anything but looking. I wasn't shopping but nonetheless was surprised how many guitars were over $30k.

All in all, a wonderful day. I really hope someone picks up the baton next year because it would be a great shame to lose this event.

[justonwo]

I've tried to make it many times over the years but just couldn't quite make it work. I'm sad that I missed this year's show, particularly since it sounds like it'll be the last one. It does sound like the granddaddy of all guitar shows. I hope everyone had a great time.

[mikealpine]

Originally Posted by lfarhadi

I attended Friday only.

The highlights for me were:
1. Finally meeting Isaac (after 5 years of calls and texts!)
2. Tony McManus honoring my shout of request to play Shalom Aleichem
3. Getting some advice from Dustin on ergonomics and electrics

Some of the other performances that stuck with me was Dustin's arrangement of Moondance and Mark Lemaire's Whiter Shade of Pale.

The instruments on display were of course superlative, but I don't find the environment conducive to anything but looking. I wasn't shopping but nonetheless was surprised how many guitars were over $30k.

All in all, a wonderful day. I really hope someone picks up the baton next year because it would be a great shame to lose this event.

Shalom Aleichem was amazing.

[Mark Hatcher]

I exhibited at the show and was pretty well chained to my table throughout the event so it is hard to make too many generalized observations. When I did manage to take a few quick run arounds I was happy to see so many younger builders with really nice work on display.

The arts are well in-bedded in the Woodstock area and many of those visiting were there to see the art of the guitars and their interests and comments were often from an artistic perspective and I'm glad to see the luthiers exhibiting were impressing those who attended.

From where I sat I was very happy to find I was right next to Rebecca Urlacher who's work I've long admired. It was great to meet and talk with her. Her work is so clean and well done.

Next to Rebecca was Julian Gaffney who had some really great ornamentation on his head stocks that I will have to remember to not copy on future builds!

Behind me was Zachary LeFebve of Treehouse Guitars. Great guy with beautiful subtle contemporary design work.

Also behind me was David Ryer of DnA Ryer Guitars. David had a french polished guitar that blew me away. I never knew french polish could be done so well! I have a new understanding of what can be done on that front.

On my other side was Reuben Forsland of JOI Guitars. He had a Bog Oak guitar with incredibly detailed ornamentation. Talking with him inspired me to give Bog Oak another shot after having my one bad experience using it on a fretboard.

I got a good close look at John Osthoffs' Steam Punk Guitar--Wow!

I am not comfortable asking to play another luthiers' guitar especially at a show but from what I was hearing all around me I think their sound and play-ability are up there with their obvious fine work.

I had a chance to thank Baker for all the work he's done over the years for his community, guitar players and those of us who are lucky enough to build guitars. It is hard to overestimate the inspiration luthiers can get being in a room of our peers.

[lfarhadi]

Originally Posted by mikealpine

Shalom Aleichem was amazing.

Mike -- It really was!!

I discovered this video years ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFdnXyjGwoA

I was very moved by this performance. Turns out Tony produced a great set of tabs for it (in standard tuning, blessed be so I was able to chip away at it and practice it often.

But watching Tony play Friday in a small room was so special (even more so in light of last week's events).

If you would like the tab, please shoot me a DM.