The finish is pulling away from the top under the bridge.

resetpreacher · #1 01-31-2021, 06:12 PM

This damage is to my Guild Westerly D-1212. I figure I need to cut through the finish next to the bridge and attempt to glue down the finish before pulling the bridge off so more finish does not pull up in the process of repair. I'm a watchmaker, so have the skills and tools to do a decent job of this. I figure a modified Exacto knife or one of my very small triangular files will do the job, depending on how hard the finish is. After cutting through the finish, I debate what glue to go with. I've considered superglue, as it would run well under the finish. But would superglue make the job more difficult of removing the finish to glue the bridge directly to the mahogany top, assuming that's necessary? Of course, I wish Guild had taken the trouble to glue directly to the top in the first place. Will Titebond hide glue flow under the finish even if warmed up? Or would Titebond I or II be better?
Btw, the damage occurred after a gig. My wife and I decided to walk around in some beautiful snow, then had dinner in a very warm McDonalds. I discovered the damage a few days after getting the guitar home and assume the sudden change in extreme temperatures caused it.

Shuksan · #2 01-31-2021, 06:30 PM

There are many things wrong with what you propose to do. I strongly suggest you take it to luthier to have a look at it before DIYing it.

phavriluk · #3 01-31-2021, 06:40 PM

OP could be a brain surgeon, but unless he has some luthier chops, time to visit a real luthier.

charles Tauber · #4 01-31-2021, 06:51 PM

Based on other comments here, if you think you have the skills to do the work, go for it.

John Arnold · #5 01-31-2021, 08:23 PM

I would use a thin razor saw blade to cut through the finish. The main complication will be chipping of the finish, which will tend to be worse when using an XActo blade. Using super glue won't prevent removing the finish under the bridge, but it will tend to seal the bare wood, preventing wood glue from sticking. Heating the area (gently!) will help soften the finish, allowing it to be worked without chipping.
I just discovered that a Guild 'Westerly' is made in China, which may well be finished in polyester. Softening with retarder won't work.

Shuksan · #6 01-31-2021, 11:55 PM

The OP said he's a watchmaker. He didn't indicate any experience with guitar repair or luthiere. If that's the case, then recommending that he take any kind of cutting tool to the finish on his guitar is asking for trouble, IMO. With no prior experience, it would be exceedingly easy to cut through the finish and right into the wood. Seems to me that if he does that and cuts the wood fibers, particularly along the south edge of the bridge, his guitar would now have an additional and potentially serious problem. Especially with it being a 12-string with the higher total string tension.

OP: If you haven't done so, take your guitar to a luthier for an informed evaluation of the problem and any potential fix. You are of course free to risk mucking up your guitar if you want, but consider yourself warned.

Bruce Sexauer · #7 02-01-2021, 10:43 AM

Your concept doesn’t sound so far off to me. I have rebonded finish with CA several times. If you can clean ALL of the glue and finish off the bridge footprint, Titebond 1 should so. Not type 2, please, and liquid hide is better for gluing in labels and other non structural things. IMO, of course.

tadol · #8 02-01-2021, 11:53 AM

I know a couple watchmakers - they definitely have the skills for the job, but usually have so much work backed up that they can make more money repairing watches and paying someone else to repair their guitar - that, and they never seem to have a bench space large enough or clear enough to put a guitar down on!

Shuksan · #9 02-01-2021, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tadol

I know a couple watchmakers - they definitely have the skills for the job, but usually have so much work backed up that they can make more money repairing watches and paying someone else to repair their guitar - that, and they never seem to have a bench space large enough or clear enough to put a guitar down on!

I guess the fact that I build guitars means that I'm qualified to do watch repair. Good to know. Maybe I'll add watch repair to my resume.

Bruce Sexauer · #10 02-01-2021, 03:30 PM

It is one thing to have a skill set recognized in the marketplace (watchmaker or guitar repair tech) and another thing to dabble in the repair of your own stuff. Certainly a qualified watchmaker has no business charging to repair another persons guitar, but it sounds like a great jumping off place for the work discussed by the OP. I object to any person imposing their own limitations on other people. When I decided to get serious about guitar making, several people, including my best friend at the time, warned me that I was setting myself up for failure. Hasn’t happened.

I took apart my first clock when I was about 12, and indeed, it never worked again. But I imagine I would do a lot better today, not that I even have a mechanical clock anymore.

tadol · #11 02-01-2021, 03:51 PM

I think a number of craftspeople I know could probably do basic repair work on guitars, without feeling like they are entitled to call themselves luthiers -

charles Tauber · #12 02-01-2021, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer

It is one thing to have a skill set recognized in the marketplace (watchmaker or guitar repair tech) and another thing to dabble in the repair of your own stuff. Certainly a qualified watchmaker has no business charging to repair another persons guitar, but it sounds like a great jumping off place for the work discussed by the OP. I object to any person imposing their own limitations on other people.

Good points.

Shuksan · #13 02-01-2021, 04:21 PM

I was in no way imposing limits on anyone. My intent is to be cautionary. The guitar world is littered with examples of guitar owners diving into a repair and ending up doing more harm than good. If the OP has no instrument repair experience, it would at the very least be wise to have someone who knows what they are doing examine the guitar in person and advise a path forward. He could then proceed in an informed way with less chance of mucking it up. I can't see how that would be in any way controversial advise. If he doesn't care if he mucks it up, then that's a different story.

Can anyone here say that they know precisely what the actual problem is with the OP's guitar based on what he has posted, which doesn't even include any photos? No. So, IMO, offering specific advice on what to do in the absence of definitive information about the problem is potentially harmful to the OP's guitar. Particularly, if he has no experience. As I said above, he is obviously fully entitled as the owner to take whatever risks he wants with his guitar. Maybe, somehow, he can pull it off going it alone. Maybe not. My two cents.

Victory Pete · #14 02-01-2021, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by resetpreacher

This damage is to my Guild Westerly D-1212. I figure I need to cut through the finish next to the bridge and attempt to glue down the finish before pulling the bridge off so more finish does not pull up in the process of repair. I'm a watchmaker, so have the skills and tools to do a decent job of this. I figure a modified Exacto knife or one of my very small triangular files will do the job, depending on how hard the finish is. After cutting through the finish, I debate what glue to go with. I've considered superglue, as it would run well under the finish. But would superglue make the job more difficult of removing the finish to glue the bridge directly to the mahogany top, assuming that's necessary? Of course, I wish Guild had taken the trouble to glue directly to the top in the first place. Will Titebond hide glue flow under the finish even if warmed up? Or would Titebond I or II be better?
Btw, the damage occurred after a gig. My wife and I decided to walk around in some beautiful snow, then had dinner in a very warm McDonalds. I discovered the damage a few days after getting the guitar home and assume the sudden change in extreme temperatures caused it.

Can you post pictures? I recently thought about precision craftsmen in the world these days while working in my shop. I ended up on YouTube watching people make watches. It was fascinating. I worked at Guild in Westerly in the 1980's, since then I have dabbled many times in all kinds of finish repairs. I think you can have a successful repair if you proceed slowly and methodically, something I am sure you are an expert at.
VP

RonMay · #15 02-01-2021, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by resetpreacher

This damage is to my Guild Westerly D-1212. I figure I need to cut through the finish next to the bridge and attempt to glue down the finish before pulling the bridge off, so more finish does not pull up in the process of repair. I'm a watchmaker, so have the skills and tools to do a decent job of this. I figure a modified Exacto knife or one of my very small triangular files will do the job, depending on how hard the finish is. After cutting through the finish, I debate what glue to go with. I've considered superglue, as it would run well under the finish. But would superglue make the job more difficult of removing the finish to glue the bridge directly to the mahogany top, assuming that's necessary? Of course, I wish Guild had taken the trouble to glue directly to the top in the first place. Will Titebond hide glue flow under the finish even if warmed up? Or would Titebond I or II be better?
Btw, the damage occurred after a gig. My wife and I decided to walk around in some beautiful snow, then had dinner in a very warm McDonalds. I discovered the damage a few days after getting the guitar home and assume the sudden change in extreme temperatures caused it.

Search Youtube for what you want to do. You'll probably find videos of how it's done.

Then judge if you have the skills, tools and ability to actually do a good job.
If not , take it to a luithier.

Ron