Most TABS are terrible, is it me??

[Paikon]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi Paikon...

You are free to disagree. There are great centers of classical training; for a few privileged students.

But most classical music is taught on a local school level, and the approach is radically different than in the professional end of classical teaching.

I wish it were different.

I've been teaching recovering guitarists in our city for nearly 38 years now, and most of them had started on classical music in the school system, and then abandoned guitar till their teen years or adulthood.

It would probably be interesting for you to hear the stories from their side of it, and help them deal with learning to experience and play music in a more casual setting.

Well my friend
music is fun but also demanding

if i want to play three chord songs its easy...if i want to play Bach i must study hard...thats all!
Classical schools prepare you to play difficult stuff!!

[MICHAEL MYERS]

Originally Posted by Paikon

Well my friend
music is fun but also demanding

if i want to play three chord songs its easy...if i want to play Bach i must study hard...thats all!
Classical schools prepare you to play difficult stuff!!

Yes, but like I said, classical schools do not allow taking liberties with the notes. A classical performer will play the same notes every time. A non classical performer will not. Two very different schools of thought (and it's not easy to abandon the classical "way" if it's been drummed into you for years). Not saying it's wrong, just very very different.
I find that classically trained musicians often sound pretty stiff when playing folk/rock/blues (the "easy" stuff) because of this.

[Paikon]

Originally Posted by MICHAEL MYERS

Yes, but like I said, classical schools do not allow taking liberties with the notes. A classical performer will play the same notes every time. A non classical performer will not. Two very different schools of thought (and it's not easy to abandon the classical "way" if it's been drummed into you for years). Not saying it's wrong, just very very different.
I find that classically trained musicians often sound pretty stiff when playing folk/rock/blues (the "easy" stuff) because of this.

i didnt respond to your comment
i responded to Larrys comment who said that the classical thought is not a musical one

As for the stiff comment ...how the folk /rock musicians sound when they play classical music?

[Paikon]

i ll tell you what
bring me 40 rock musicians that can play in time and not sound like hell

[MICHAEL MYERS]

Originally Posted by Paikon

i didnt respond to your comment
i responded to Larrys comment who said that the classical thought is not a musical one

As for the stiff comment ...how the folk /rock musicians sound when they play classical music?

I think it works both ways. There are of course people that can do both very well, but the average folk/rock musician would struggle with the concept of playing note for note with a score. And struggling doesn't produce good music.

[Paikon]

Originally Posted by MICHAEL MYERS

I think it works both ways. There are of course people that can do both very well, but the average folk/rock musician would struggle with the concept of playing note for note with a score. And struggling doesn't produce good music.

opinions opinions opinions

[MICHAEL MYERS]

Originally Posted by Paikon

opinions opinions opinions

Opinions formed from years of experience.

[Odie1974]

Wasn't it Tommy Emmanual who said something to the effect that before you start modifying / changing the tune, you need to learn it note for note and "as written" first? So that your changes are the really *intended* ones...

And he hardly is a classical guitarist

I think there is a place for both - there are pieces which require strict discipline - otherwise they do not work as intended (both rhytmically and harmonically). And they would be very hard to work out by ear...
And there are more free flowing pieces where you just learn the basics / structure and let rip...

My classical teacher is not opposed to my changing the pieces slightly - as long as I maintain the pulse / groove. So there is SOME (limited) room for expression in classical approach asd well... AT least if you play for yourself and do not intend to do concerts.

[MICHAEL MYERS]

Originally Posted by Odie1974

Wasn't it Tommy Emmanual who said something to the effect that before you start modifying / changing the tune, you need to learn it note for note and "as written" first?

Does that apply to tunes that aren't written down?

[Odie1974]

Originally Posted by MICHAEL MYERS

Does that apply to tunes that aren't written down?

Probably not
But the thread was originally about free/paid tabs which are a written source after all...

[MICHAEL MYERS]

Originally Posted by Odie1974

Probably not
But the thread was originally about free/paid tabs which are a written source after all...

Agreed.... Although I don't want to learning anything note for note from no bad tab (free or paid).

[JoeCharter]

I came to the guitar world as a classically trained pianist and have been using tablature since the very beginning. For a guy like me who already knew about music and wasn't interested in classical guitar, tablature was a real life saver. It allowed me to learn much, much faster.

That being said, I always buy my tab. Couldn't care less about the free stuff unless it's an obscure piece I can't purchase.

As for the tab or no tab debate, it pretty much depends on the individuals. Of course, some pieces are better learned by ear -- but for those who want to improve by playing something more challenging, learning by ear is simply impossible without spending way too much time taking notes. If you can figure out everything by ear, you are not trying a piece that's challenging enough for you. That's IF you want to improve.

So to answer Rich's original question, yes most free tabs are terrible.

Paid tabs are generally good. Some are bad but that doesn't discredit the rest.

[Paikon]

Originally Posted by MICHAEL MYERS

Opinions formed from years of experience.

yeah but still opinions

[rick-slo]

There is enough good free tab (maybe not your exact song ) to keep one busy for a lifetime if you look around enough for it, although support the artist with a little cash if you are in to a particular artist and they have their own official paid tabs out.

I usually already know the song somewhat by ear (what got me interested in it in the first place) and can spot a bad tab quickly. Tab can be useful for discovering details of how a piece was played. For example if you are working on a Tommy Emanuel tune this is a nice free resource:
http://tommyemmanuel.wordpress.com/gitar-tabok/

Play pieces from the get go "your own way" and you may miss little playing ideas or techniques which lie in the note for note performance. You can always change things to make it easier or more to your taste, but the original way is at least worth an inspection.

[wcap]

Originally Posted by JoeCharter

I came to the guitar world as a classically trained pianist and have been using tablature since the very beginning. For a guy like me who already knew about music and wasn't interested in classical guitar, tablature was a real life saver. It allowed me to learn much, much faster.

That being said, I always buy my tab. Couldn't care less about the free stuff unless it's an obscure piece I can't purchase.

As for the tab or no tab debate, it pretty much depends on the individuals. Of course, some pieces are better learned by ear -- but for those who want to improve by playing something more challenging, learning by ear is simply impossible without spending way too much time taking notes. If you can figure out everything by ear, you are not trying a piece that's challenging enough for you. That's IF you want to improve.

So to answer Rich's original question, yes most free tabs are terrible.

Paid tabs are generally good. Some are bad but that doesn't discredit the rest.

Given your strong music background (presumably including good sight reading skills on piano), I'm curious why you did not tend to use standard notation when you were learning guitar?

I suspect I know the answer - that tablature shows you how to play a piece in a way that standard notation does not (though I guess classical guitar scores do include some fingering information?). It is a bit like having an experienced player sit down with you to coach you with the fingerings. This is a large part of the reason why 5-string banjo players love tablature so much - given the small intervals between the strings on a banjo there are MANY different alternative fingerings for the exact same sequence of notes (exact same pitches). (This is a bigger deal on banjo than on guitar, though this is an important issue on guitar too of course). Some of these fingerings are impossible to play, some are possible but awkward, while some are elegantly simple and efficient. An important key to becoming good on banjo, and on guitar too, is learning how to find these really efficient fingerings.

I suspect that another reason why you used tablature might have been that unless you want to play classical guitar standard notation tends to not be available for guitar (though better modern tablature software normally gives you both).

Anyway, as a guitar and banjo player who learned mostly from tablature (and I am always frustrated by my limitations due to never sitting down and learning to sight read from standard notation), I'm interested in your perspectives on this. And I'm curious whether you also play guitar from standard notation on guitar.