Gobo vs full room treatment

[zenpicker]

Hello all, long time no see.

I've revamped my home studio space and am having trouble getting the sound I want now...alas. For context, I only play solo fingerstyle acoustic and I have decent if not uber high-end mikes - a Peluso P28 matched pair, an ADK A51TC LDC tube condenser and a Neumann KM184, among others. The rest of my signal chain is of similar not-bad quality.

Since the room remodel I'm hearing phase issues and just general boxiness that I can't seem to get past regardless of mike position (have tried X-Y, ORTF, and my old reliable spaced pair with the two Peluso P28s and the ADK LDC in the middle for enhanced midrange, sometimes with the Neumann pointing down from above). Have fussed with phase options on my pre with minor but insufficient improvements. It's the room, I'm pretty sure.

The major room change I made, from an acoustic POV, was to replace carpet with "luxury vinyl" flooring which is a dead ringer for hardwood (not practical on a basement cement slab) but is a tad less reflective. I use a Persian rug flexibly on top of it. I couldn't fix the low ceilings and the various corners. It's not a box but there are plenty of symmetric angles to breed standing waves. In other words, it's still a basement studio with natively awful acoustics.

My big question, which I'd love input on:

Is it worth undertaking a full room treatment campaign here, or would I get a good ways there by creating an absorbent gobo to be placed behind my mike array?

I watched the great video on DIY broadband absorbers () and it's pretty persuasive. Me, I'd probably be lazier and just buy a pack of the Auralex 2"x12"x12" foam squares and mount them to masonite slips I could hang from a folding shoji screen I already have.

Or...I could start treating every corner and flat surface and do it "right." I hesitate to clutter the room with foam or panels because it's not only used for recording - it would really mess up the place aesthetically. But if a gobo is insufficient, I will hold my nose and do it.

Thoughts? And would there be value in having a gobo behind me as well as behind the mikes, creating kind of a bullpen? What about ceiling treatment?

I'll attach a couple pics, taken from behind and in front of the player position (the green chair).

Really appreciate advice on this one before I get going...thanks in advance!

[Rudy4]

Hi Edward,
No specific recommendation from me, but you might get a lot out of Doug Fearn's "Recording in Improvised Spaces" podcast.

"Recording In Improvised Spaces" video, part one:

[zenpicker]

Cool - will check it out. Thanks!

Originally Posted by Rudy4

Hi Edward,
No specific recommendation from me, but you might get a lot out of Doug Fearn's "Recording in Improvised Spaces" podcast.

"Recording In Improvised Spaces" video, part one:

[KevWind]

Couple quick thoughts
Yes the flooring is very reflective
One thing to try is a throw rug under your mic position
The windows are also very reflective and obviously you won't mount absorbers over them.... So I would consider portable gobos a couple between the mics and windows and a couple behind your sitting position

[zenpicker]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Couple quick thoughts
Yes the flooring is very reflective
One thing to try is a throw rug under your mic position
The windows are also very reflective and obviously you won't mount absorbers over them.... So I would consider portable gobos a couple between the mics and windows and a couple behind your sitting position

Thanks, Kev. I could just scootch that Persian rug up under the mikes and seat for starters...think I am leaning toward the gobos too.

[jim1960]

From the photos, it looks like your mics are near to dead center in that room. If that's the case, that's likely part of your problem. You don't want to be dead center and you don't want to be too close to a wall either. Find a spot that splits the difference and you might hear some improvement.

If that doesn't get you there, then I'd suggest 2-4 freestanding bass traps as the next step. Something like below. Ideally, you'd want bass traps in all the corners but it looks like that wouldn't be doable in your room so using freestanding traps to create a room within the room might be your best option.

[zenpicker]

Originally Posted by jim1960

From the photos, it looks like your mics are near to dead center in that room. If that's the case, that's likely part of your problem. You don't want to be dead center and you don't want to be too close to a wall either. Find a spot that splits the difference and you might hear some improvement.

If that doesn't get you there, then I'd suggest 2-4 freestanding bass traps as the next step. Something like below. Ideally, you'd want bass traps in all the corners but it looks like that wouldn't be doable in your room so using freestanding traps to create a room within the room might be your best option.

Thanks, Jim, hadn't thought of that. I'll see if I can shift it some. The pics don't show it but it's actually an L-shaped room, the other area being to the right of the performance seat, but that probably doesn't matter acoustically. I'll try your suggestion. Thanks.

[j3ffr0]

Lot of windows and bookshelves in there to go along with that reflective floor. I think you could get a lot of mileage out of decent number of clouds (ceiling treatment) -- especially in the corners and over your playing, listening, recording position. Nothing less that 4" of 703 type to have decent bass absorption. From there, I think you could get by with some gobos. Again, I'd suggest the 4" variety to help with the bass, since I don't see room for additional bass trapping beyond the ceiling.

For consideration.... Sound doesn't look at a room the same way that people do. The shortest distance most resonant area many of us have is that floor to ceiling distance, so that's where we can often get the best ROI. If you contact the folks at GIK, they will give you free advice for your unique situation, and I find their products reasonably priced. I enjoy working with them. Best of luck.

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by zenpicker

...
Is it worth undertaking a full room treatment campaign here, or would I get a good ways there by creating an absorbent gobo to be placed behind my mike array?
...

Consider doing a bit of both. Corners, first reflective points (for instrument position and monitors) and an overhead. Some gobos for various placements to optimize things.

[zenpicker]

Originally Posted by j3ffr0

Lot of windows and bookshelves in there to go along with that reflective floor. I think you could get a lot of mileage out of decent number of clouds (ceiling treatment) -- especially in the corners and over your playing, listening, recording position. Nothing less that 4" of 703 type to have decent bass absorption. From there, I think you could get by with some gobos. Again, I'd suggest the 4" variety to help with the bass, since I don't see room for additional bass trapping beyond the ceiling.

For consideration.... Sound doesn't look at a room the same way that people do. The shortest distance most resonant area many of us have is that floor to ceiling distance, so that's where we can often get the best ROI. If you contact the folks at GIK, they will give you free advice for your unique situation, and I find their products reasonably priced. I enjoy working with them. Best of luck.

Super helpful. One question on the bass traps: how necessary is it to go aggressive on these, if I am playing pretty quiet fingerstyle?

[TBman]

I use two of these in front of me in a V shape. I am going to buy another when I move my recording area to a larger room.

[zenpicker]

Originally Posted by TBman

I use two of these in front of me in a V shape. I am going to buy another when I move my recording area to a larger room.

Thanks, Barry, I was actually looking at those. And thanks for the Stephen Wake in your sig block. Love that guy. Actually had dinner with him in Costa Rica and the place started playing Highland bagpipe music for no reason....bizarre!

[zenpicker]

Originally Posted by sdelsolray

Consider doing a bit of both. Corners, first reflective points (for instrument position and monitors) and an overhead. Some gobos for various placements to optimize things.

Yup. Likely where I'll end up.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by zenpicker

Thanks, Barry, I was actually looking at those. And thanks for the Stephen Wake in your sig block. Love that guy. Actually had dinner with him in Costa Rica and the place started playing Highland bagpipe music for no reason....bizarre!

That's weird. Those little twilight zone things happen from time from time

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by zenpicker

Super helpful. One question on the bass traps: how necessary is it to go aggressive on these, if I am playing pretty quiet fingerstyle?

In smaller spaces, you can never have too many bass traps. Low frequencies build up in smaller rooms.