HK Audio Elements Portable Line Array System

[open-road-matt]

I just came across a new system from HK Audio called Elements. It looks pretty cool. It seems to be basically a line array system that you piece together based on how much coverage you need based on the size of your venue/audience.

So you could go from something like a Fishman SoloAmp to a full sized Bose L1 by piecing these "Elements" together.

Here is the website:

http://hkaudio.com/elements_en.php5

I'd like to find out more about it but it appears that there are no HK Audio dealers in the USA. Plus all of the marketing info I've found looks cool but doesn't offer any info on number of channels if any, controls, internal mixer, external mixer, etc. etc. They just show people piecing these things together.

Neat idea!

Matt

P.S. I just sent an email to HK Audio to try and get some more info on this system.

[open-road-matt]

I heard back from HK Audio. They said they are working on distribution in the USA. There is no built in mixer. The system is designed as "sound reenforcement" and can be used with many different mixers.

I found this YouTube video where they show the system in a little more detail:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBfP_...eature=related

Anyone speak German?

Matt

[DrDavid]

Hi Matt,

Thanks for the heads up on the HK system.

I agree with you that it looks intriguing.

And I also agree that their website is one of the more frustrating and annoying efforts I've ever come across for any product or any company -- lots of glitter and glitch, very sparse information. If you dig, you can find some specs on the amplifier section, etc., but they make it extremely challenging to navigate and explore.

Yes, I do understand a good bit of German. Which is a fortunate thing, since the English components of the website seem to revert to German without warning.

Hopefully they will establish a USA presence and also do a total revamp of their marketing approach.

..

[open-road-matt]

Hi DrDavid!
I'm glad someone else finds this interesting!

Originally Posted by DrDavid

And I also agree that their website is one of the more frustrating and annoying efforts I've ever come across for any product or any company -- lots of glitter and glitch, very sparse information. If you dig, you can find some specs on the amplifier section, etc., but they make it extremely challenging to navigate and explore.

All of the stuff on the HK Audio website on the Elements systems seems like the kind of thing a company might use to try and tease the release of a new product and get people excited about it but not really give them any info yet. Sort of a "look what's coming" approach. Unfortunately they never went any further so there is no "real" information. Hopefully that will change. The idea and the piecing together approach looks neat!

I essentially use this same approach when I tour with my Bose systems. I bring an L1 Model 2 with 2 B1s (subs) and a T1 ToneMatch the goes in my trunk. I also keep an L1 Compact in my back seat and then use whichever system fits the venue/show.

I like the idea of having 1 system that could serve the purpose of the 2 I currently carry. It's fun to investigate it even though it would have to be really great for me to give up what I have now.

I've done some more research and it looks like this will be an expensive system if it makes it here to the USA.

The main mixing and matching happens with a piece called the E435 Top or the Mid/High unit. A "full" set up like they show at the end of the YouTube video consists of 4 of these Mid/High units powered by an EA600 Poweramp. The EA600 looks exactly like the Mid/High units. One EA600 can power 4 Mid/High Units or 2 Passive Subs or 1 Passive Sub and 2 Mid/High Units.

So I guess a "full" system would consist of an EF45 Stand, 1 EA600 PowerAmp and 4 E435 Tops (or Mid/High Units.) From what I could gather from the video, this is as tall as they ever show the system so I'm guessing that is the full height. That is made up of 20 small speakers and looks to be about as tall as a Bose L1.

Then they have the subs. You can get either the E110 Sub A (for active) or the E110 Sub (passive.)

I found a dealer overseas and converted the Euros to Dollars. To get a system that can extend to the full height (4 Mid/High Units + 1 Power Amp + stand) plus 2 Active Subs would cost $4119. That doesn't appear to include the carry bags and one would need a mixer. The pole would be another $89 and that would allow you to only use some of the Mid/High units.

This is of course all speculation so it may be irresponsible posting on my part. Maybe it would be priced much differently here in the USA. I was just trying to get an idea as to the cost of a "full" system. And when I say "full" system I am comparing visually what I have with my Bose L1 to what I am seeing in the very limited info I can find on the Elements system. I have NO idea how it compares sonically or what one would need using the Elements to cover what can be covered with a Bose L1. I'm basically just playing around trying to gather info and sharing it in case anyone else in intrigued.

In trying to visualize using this system I have come up with a couple of hurdles. 1) the stand looks very small. I play a ton of outdoor shows and often have to set up on uneven ground or on bouncy stages. I'd be worried about it tipping over! 2) the case I've seen holds 4 of the Mid/High units. So if I had those all in one case but didn't need the full system I'd have to either remove some and leave them in the car or lug everything into the venue totally defeating the purpose of having a system that could be big or small!

But again, that's just me speculating!
Matt

[open-road-matt]

I just got an email from HK Audio saying that the Elements System is now available in the USA.

Here is the page from American Musical Supply for the system they say would be for a musician playing, "smaller events with up to 100 people."

http://www.americanmusical.com/Item-...EMENTACC1-LIST

There are some videos on the system if you scroll down a bit.

I'm still intrigued by this system. I found a place not too terribly far from me that sells these and the fellow I spoke with said I could come down and demo a system and set up my Bose to see how they compare.

Might be worth the road trip.

Matt

[riorider]

Matt - here's the link (which I think you forgot to post!):

http://www.americanmusical.com/Item-...MENTBAND1-LIST

Interesting. I'm going to send you a PM about your Bose experiences but didn't want to siderail this discussion.

It does look pricey. I'd think it'd have to blow the Bose out of the water for that price - including all the intangibles like durability, portability, ease of setup / change, etc.

Thanks,

Phil

[Herb Hunter]

Thanks for bringing the HK line array PA to our attention.

Apparently, the HK Elements configuration that is comparable to the Bose L1 Model II is the Acoustics One.

It is interesting that despite having larger drivers, HK claims a higher frequency response than Bose and that Bose claims a deeper frequency response from its smaller woofer pair whose combined surface area is less than that of the HK woofer. Also, there is quite a disparity in the claimed audience capacity.

I would expect the Bose system to have better high frequency dispersion due to the smaller drivers and dual-plane baffle (what Bose calls an articulated array). Also, the Bose's longer array could result in less vertical dispersion than the HK and, therefore, less reverberation from the ceiling.

The price in dollars that I am showing for the HK is a conversion of the list price on HK's website at today's exchange rates. I would expect that the HK would sell for less in the US than in Europe so the price I'm showing could be on the high side once the product becomes available here.



.................................................. ........................HK Elements Acoustics One.....................................Bose L1 Model II..............................................Bose L1 Compact
Array Drivers:.........................8 - 3.5" HF drivers.........................24 - 2.5" HF drivers..................6 - 2.0" HF drivers
Bass Module:...........................1 - 10" LF driver............................2 - 5.25" LF drivers.................1 - 8" LF driver
Frequency Response -10 dB:.............45Hz – 20 kHz...............................32 Hz – 14 kHz........................50 Hz – 16 kHz
Crossover:.............................140 Hz, 12 dB/ oct.........................200 Hz 24 dB per octave................400 Hz 24 dB per octave
Power:.................................600 watts..................................500 watts (biamped)....................130 watts

Audience Size.........................Less than 100...............................Less than 500..........................Less than 100

Price:................................$2,000...... ...............................$2,500............. ...................$1,000

[open-road-matt]

Hi Guys!
Thanks for the replies! Herb, thanks for the comparison! Phil, thanks for adding the link. I was rushing to get out the door yesterday and then was on the road until late last night.

I edited my post and included the link. The link I had intended to include (and now did) is to just one of the Acoustics One systems. They have the price at $1996.00.

Like Herb, I'm quite surprised at the recommended audience size of "up to 100 people." That's quite a bit of money for what I would consider a small system if that audience size is correct. Going just by the recommended audience size, that makes this Acoustics One more comparable to the Bose L1 Compact. Bose says the Compact is for, "for smaller spaces with audiences up to 100."

If that's the case, that the Acoustics One is comparable to the Bose L1 Compact, you'd be paying twice as much for the Acoustics One without the options of plugging directly into the Acoustics One like you can the Compact. (i.e. you'd still need a mixer.) I like to use my T1 with my Compact so if you were starting from scratch and considering a Compact with a T1, price-wise you'd be getting closer to the cost of an Acoustics One but you'd still need some sort of mixer with the HK stuff.

I asked the HK Audio dealer if you can put these Elements systems behind you like you do with the Bose. He said the whole idea of putting the Bose behind you was just a gimmick and that putting the Bose behind you doesn't work out in the real world so you would still need a monitor with the HK stuff. I didn't want to get into the fact that I have done hundreds of shows, up to and including yesterday with a Bose system behind me with great results. Since he's dead wrong about the Bose, I'm hoping he is as wrong about the HK stuff!

I am still very interested in trying it. I love my Bose stuff but when I travel with the L1 Model 2 and the Compact like I do, it's one or the other. The cool thing, in theory with the HK Elements is that I could set up the smallest version, the Acoustics One and if I needed just a bit more, I could add say one more Mid/High unit or grab a second sub.

So just playing around, I would want to get the Acoustics One to match what I can do with my L1 Compact. At $1996 that would give me one active sub and two passive Mid/High units. The full tower consists of two more Mid/High units, the EA600 power amp and the base for a total of $1576 and a passive sub at $699 for a grand total of $4271 to be able to go from the Acoustics One all the way to a full tower with two subs. (sill no mixer.)

Using the pricing from the Bose website, to get a Model 2 with two subs and a Compact, you'd spend $3800.80. (That is the price w/out a T1.) So if someone was pondering portable line array systems, providing the HK Elements full tower with two subs can cover an equal audience size to the Model 2, the pricing of the HK stuff isn't that far off and you'd have the convenience of carrying one system that could be expanded as needed.

Pretty interesting!

Matt

[DrDavid]

Interesting discussion.

Thanks for the thorough heads-up on the USA availability, Matt.

And thanks, Herb, for the spec comparison.

Matt -- I really hope you'll get a chance to demo the HK side by side with your Bose stuff. Would love to have your thoughts and assessment.

..

[open-road-matt]

Originally Posted by DrDavid

Matt -- I really hope you'll get a chance to demo the HK side by side with your Bose stuff. Would love to have your thoughts and assessment.

Hi DrDavid!
I am curious enough that I will probably take a day and drive down with my Bose stuff and hear them side by side. I will certainly report back. My big fear is that I will love the HK stuff!

If I had neither system, the extra $400 to get all the HK stuff might be worth the convenience of being able to add extra pieces for bigger venues. But since I already own all the Bose stuff it would be a much bigger investment in time, energy and money to sell the Compact and the Model 2 to get the HK stuff.

There is also the question of support. Bose support and customer service in my experience has been wonderful. Channel 2 on my Compact is acting up. It's still under warranty at 1.5 years old and for a very small shipping fee, I'll send it back to Bose for a complete overhaul!

Matt

[El Conquistador]

Originally Posted by open-road-matt

There is also the question of support.
Matt

"If something can go wrong, it will."

Man, this cannot be overstated! Fishman support for my SA220 has been superb and I simply would be nowhere as happy with it as I am without their support. I have also had superb customer support from Bose on my home audio stuff. Again, this simply cannot be factored out of a decision to purchase, particularly if you perform in public.
Steve

[Herb Hunter]

I added the Bose L1 Compact specifications to my earlier post.

I wonder if HF is being more conservative than Bose in their maximum audience size specification. Given the power of the Acoustic One, which is comparable to that of the L1 Model II, it is difficult to account for the disparity in that specification.

[kramster]

I think it was Korg using some HK line arrays and subs to demo there top keyboard at winter NAMM and sounded great (only shot I took that came out for some reason)

[open-road-matt]

Originally Posted by kramster

I think it was Korg using some HK line arrays and subs to demo there top keyboard at winter NAMM and sounded great (only shot I took that came out for some reason)

Hi kramster!
I'll bet it was Korg. The fellow that sent me the email letting me know the Elements system is available in the States had a Korg email address so there is some kind of connection there.

I sent that fellow an email to try and get a handle on the audience size that they list for the different systems. As I look at the different configurations, there are some things about the various audience sizes that don't make sense to me.

Their mono Acoustics One system consists of one active sub and two of the mid high units and they say that is for audiences up to 100 people:

http://www.americanmusical.com/Item-...EMENTACC1-LIST

They offer another package called the Band One Stereo system which is just two of the Acoustics One and they said that is for audiences of up to 100 people:

http://www.americanmusical.com/Item-...MENTBAND1-LIST

So you've doubled your system but the recommended audience size has stayed the same.

The Band Two system two set ups, each consisting of one power amp (with the 4 speakers) two of the mid/high units, an active sub and a passive sub and that says it is for audiences of 200:

http://www.americanmusical.com/Item-...MENTBAND2-LIST

That set up is just shy of $7k to play for 200 people. That seems odd to me.

Matt

[SpruceTop]

The E 435 Mid/High Unit of the HK Audio Element Acoustics One Mono Portable PA Speaker System only has a 70 degree horizontal dispersion. Although a stack of two or more would give a line-array type sound throw, the limited horizontal dispersion would make it act like the horizontal dispersion of a typical 2-way box speaker for the mid and high frequencies. I would reason the overall sound generation of the HK Element Acoustics One wouldn't have the spaciousness of the Bose L1 Model II and Model I systems. Anyone else think the same way?

For all those interested, Bose claims a Horizontal Nominal Coverage Pattern of:

197 degrees for the Bose L1 Model II;

160 degrees for the Bose L1 Model I;

180 degrees for the Bose L1 Compact.

In depth, technical data for all Bose L1 Systems can be accessed via browser-viewed PDF files by clicking the desired L1 system in the left-hand "Product Highlights" menu at the following page link:

http://pro.bose.com/ProController?ur...ucts/l1/l1.jsp

Regards,

SpruceTop