Fender reissue amps?

BoneDigger · #1 09-08-2018, 09:19 AM

What's the general consensus on these? I have a Twin Reverb blackface reissue and it seems pretty nice, but my local dealer tells me they aren't nearly as good as the original. Those originals are not cheap. Is the difference really worth it?

RoyBoy · #2 09-08-2018, 10:19 AM

There's a ton of discussion/debate on this over on the TDPRI forum. The reissues have the bulk of their circuitry on printed circuit boards, whereas the vintage ones are wired point-to-point. More expensive to produce but reportedly more durable and easier to repair. Lot's of those old amps from the 60s and 70s are still going strong and sound great. I have both a Deluxe Reverb RI and a Princeton RI. Tonewise, they are great and I've had no problems with either, but they don't get thrown around with a lot of other gear as they might in a regularly gigging band situation. You can't beat the Fender clean sound IMO.

Al Acuff · #3 09-08-2018, 10:22 AM

No matter what I say the only way you'll know is to compare and listen. A new reissue amp and an old vintage amp will sound different. Maybe not as different as you expect!

If I wanted to sweeten a reissue amp I'd look at swapping speakers and/or tubes. Also have found that a good vintage spec output transformer by Mercury Magnetics can help get you that authentic blackface tone.

davidd · #4 09-08-2018, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoneDigger

What's the general consensus on these? I have a Twin Reverb blackface reissue and it seems pretty nice, but my local dealer tells me they aren't nearly as good as the original. Those originals are not cheap. Is the difference really worth it?

Actually a vintage Twin Reverb, especially silverface amps are the fender combo that is affordable. I see them on CL in my area all the time for well under a grand, sometimes hundreds less, cheaper than a reissue. It's the Princeton, Deluxe and Vibrolux Reverbs that command a premium. Most guys just don't want big, heavy, powerful amps these days, but if you want beautiful clean and don't intend on moving it too often its hard to beat a Twin Reverb. It's the fact that the reissues are PCB instead of PTP that turns most us amp snobs off. Never played a Twin reissue, but the Deluxe Reverb re-issue that I had was very close to my 1972 DR. I wouldn't put too much stock in what your local dealer said.

Bob Womack · #5 09-08-2018, 11:16 AM

The latest round of reissues are pretty darn good. I've got the '65 Deluxe and the '68 Custom Princeton. The Deluxe is really very much like the originals. When it came out it was universally praised. Despite its Silverface cosmetics, the Custom Prince has a tweaked circuit that sounds more like a Blackface Bassman preamp into a tweed power amp. The straight Blackface '65 Reissue Prince is very close to the originals. My review of the '68 Custom Prince is HERE.

Bob

ghostnote · #6 09-08-2018, 04:23 PM

The only reissue I own is the Princeton Reverb. It is a superb amp. The sound is deep, crystal clear, and lush, and absolutely quiet in between songs. I have many amps in my music room, but the PRRI gets used probably 50% of the time. Sometimes I'll use a Rangemaster clone into it - gives it a shimmer and sparkle on the top end that I could listen to all night.

BoneDigger · #7 09-08-2018, 07:02 PM

So, if I wanted to add another amp to my music room, knowing that I own a Twin Reverb, would the Deluxe or Princeton be a better option? I'm thinking the Deluxe would overlap the Twin quite a lot, so the Princeton may give me a better compliment to my Twin?

jseth · #8 09-08-2018, 09:56 PM

Back around 2004 or so, I was in the market for a Deluxe Reverb... had a friend who managed a music store in San Jose and he was willing to sell me one for $775 - but in California, that doesn't include an extra 11% for tax...

Still, I checked it out - and honestly? It sounded kind of thin and fizzy to me, even though it had been a decade since I played through a "real" Blackface '65 DR.

I was raised in Orange County through the 50's and 60's, graduated from Fullerton Union High School... a Fender amps were what every one had, unless they couldn't afford one.... only saying this to establish that I KNOW what old Fender amps sound like...

I ended up getting one of Ebay for just over $700 - a '75 Silverface DR that still had 70's tubes in it... had my amp guy check it out, took it home and plugged it in... Ah! THERE it was, that rich smooth tone that a Deluxe reverb has...

For me, there was no question as to which was a better sounding unit - I don't know if they've done anything "new" to the Reissue lineup or not since then. I have heard wonderful things about the Silverface Princeton Reverb reissue, but not a lot else.

If you look a bit, you can still find a blackface Princeton for under a grand - but not a Princeton Reverb model... if you can work around the reverb, I'd say that's a great compliment to that Twin you have...

I have also seen Silverface Twins for less than a grand, as someone else said...

The old stuff sounds better, especially if it was built before CBS decided to monkey around with the original Fender design specs... but you also have repairs to deal with, and transformers aren't cheap, I don't think...

As someone else replied, get out and try a few, see what YOU think!

davidd · #9 09-09-2018, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoneDigger

So, if I wanted to add another amp to my music room, knowing that I own a Twin Reverb, would the Deluxe or Princeton be a better option? I'm thinking the Deluxe would overlap the Twin quite a lot, so the Princeton may give me a better compliment to my Twin?

For around the house or small gigs a Princeton Reverb is ideal IMO owning both the DR and PR. Purists will lift their nose in the air but changing the 10" baffle to a 12" and throwing in a nice speaker such as the Emi Red Fang or Celestion Gold will give you a gigable amp that allows you to push the tubes and hit that sweet spot. Just realize that a non-reverb Princeton is a totally different animal from the PR. Also the PR's and Deluxe had very minimal changes over the years so the Silverface models are what I would be looking at. The bargains are the later ones with the push/pull volume. Without it engaged there is no difference from the non-push/pull models, but again purists have issues with them.

viccortes285 · #10 09-09-2018, 10:52 AM

I love my limited Edition Fender Deluxe Reverb
So quite

Love the tone has a 12Q speaker.[emoji106][emoji41][emoji450]

westview · #11 09-09-2018, 07:43 PM

A few years back I bought a 65 reissue Super Reverb.
I don't have the experience/knowledge to compare it to an original.
But, it does have four 10in. Jensen speakers and is all tone. Great amp.

jonfields45 · #12 09-10-2018, 05:38 AM

Speaking as a retired EE, there is no electrical difference between printed circuit boards vs. handwired. It is a case of hearing with your eyes. Component differences (+100 to -20% for some capacitors for example) vs. our logarithmic hearing (not sensitive to small changes in loud sounds) probably yield what some people can hear between any two amps of the same model.

My only gripe with the Fender reissues is the use of single sided printed circuit boards which are not as durable to rework as double sided boards with plated through holes. However, because of the dramatically less solder used in their construction, they will be dramatically more reliable than hand wired. PCBs are better. Anyone who has serviced a hand wired amp knows the first easy step after checking the tubes is to reheat the solder joints in the likely location of the problem.

I imagine no one needs to be told that tube amps run hot. Many capacitors are rated for only 1000 hours total life time at full temperature (typically 80C which is hot even by tube amp standards). Drifting out of spec would be the typical failure (generally less capacitance for an electrolytic) and quite a bit of that won't cause an amp to fail. But when someone considers a 50 year old tube amp instead of a better made new one I cringe. Everything in that amp is past its lifetime.

MikeBmusic · #13 09-10-2018, 07:07 AM

What Jon said ^^^. The old Fenders are known to have needed recapping - and new transformers. 'Run hot' is an understatement.

davidd · #14 09-10-2018, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonfields45

Speaking as a retired EE, there is no electrical difference between printed circuit boards vs. handwired. It is a case of hearing with your eyes. Component differences (+100 to -20% for some capacitors for example) vs. our logarithmic hearing (not sensitive to small changes in loud sounds) probably yield what some people can hear between any two amps of the same model.

My only gripe with the Fender reissues is the use of single sided printed circuit boards which are not as durable to rework as double sided boards with plated through holes. However, because of the dramatically less solder used in their construction, they will be dramatically more reliable than hand wired. PCBs are better. Anyone who has serviced a hand wired amp knows the first easy step after checking the tubes is to reheat the solder joints in the likely location of the problem.

I imagine no one needs to be told that tube amps run hot. Many capacitors are rated for only 1000 hours total life time at full temperature (typically 80C which is hot even by tube amp standards). Drifting out of spec would be the typical failure (generally less capacitance for an electrolytic) and quite a bit of that won't cause an amp to fail. But when someone considers a 50 year old tube amp instead of a better made new one I cringe. Everything in that amp is past its lifetime.

With all due respect I beg to differ. My 1972 Deluxe Reverb is the best sounding amp I've ever owned and I've gone through many over the years. I've had a DR re-issue (very nice but not as sweet), a Custom Vibrolux (hissed as they all do with lousy reverb), and a Supersonic combo. All were very nice amps but the '72 still won out by a large margin. I've also owned Rivera era Fenders a PRII and Champ II, both real nice amps but Fender got it right the first time with their tube amps. Most amp techs I know don't want to go anywhere near PCB amps if they can avoid working them. On the other hand I love Peavey PCB amps so from a tone standpoint I agree with you they can be designed to be great amps.

Steve DeRosa · #15 09-10-2018, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by westview

A few years back I bought a 65 reissue Super Reverb.
I don't have the experience/knowledge to compare it to an original.
But, it does have four 10in. Jensen speakers and is all tone. Great amp.

Same here, and I do have hands-on experience with originals going back to when they were brand-new; there were good ones and bad ones then (perhaps fewer of the latter), and there are good ones and bad ones now - go with your ears...