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Old 04-10-2019, 08:54 AM
Duh Duh is offline
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Default Buying luthier wood for a later

I'm thinking of buying some wood, Rosewood and Redwood, and just putting it in the garage for now but later asking a Luthier to build me a guitar. Is there anything I need to know about the thickness if I wanted a something like a HD35? Also, is there any way to determine if it is decent wood? Is there any difference between precut luthier Classical cut and a Dreadnought?
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Old 04-10-2019, 09:02 AM
runamuck runamuck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duh View Post
I'm thinking of buying some wood, Rosewood and Redwood, and just putting it in the garage for now but later asking a Luthier to build me a guitar. Is there anything I need to know about the thickness if I wanted a something like a HD35? Also, is there any way to determine if it is decent wood? Is there any difference between precut luthier Classical cut and a Dreadnought?
Why not wait until you want a guitar built and rely on your luthier to choose the wood? I don't think a few pieces of advice here will educate you to the point of of being able to make a wise decision, especially regarding wood for the top.

Classical tops and backs are smaller than dreadnaughts.
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Old 04-10-2019, 09:03 AM
Itzkinguitars Itzkinguitars is offline
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Most builders probably wouldn't use customer supplied wood as many prefer to let their materials age and dry in their climate controlled shops as opposed to taking a risk with material of questionable history. If you don't plan to build the guitar yourself I'd recommend choosing wood from your luthier's stash once the time is right.
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Old 04-10-2019, 09:25 AM
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Bruce Sexauer Bruce Sexauer is offline
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Being able to tell the difference between the good wood and the so so wood, let alone the bad wood, is a skill hard enough to acquire that one can make a career of it. It is probably easier to grade diamonds.
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Old 04-10-2019, 11:58 AM
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theEdwinson theEdwinson is offline
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Many luthiers, as a matter of policy, will refuse to build with customer-supplied wood, period. Many others, including me, will only do so, considering a few caveats:
-Is the wood really instrument grade, something I would not hesitate to buy or build with myself?
-What is the provenance of the wood? Is it legal?
-If you are expecting me to give you a discount off my base price, sorry, I can't do that.
-I will retain the right of refusal to use your set of wood based on my experienced judgement on whether it is viable, well-seasoned, and dependably stable.
-My warranty does not cover defects or failures in customer supplied woods.

That said, I have built plenty of guitars with customer supplied tonewoods- some of which were premium woods that I could not afford to acquire. And since I build bespoke instruments, it's my job to create guitars that are exactly what my customers want.

Another angle to consider: When you go out to a fancy restaurant for dinner, do you stop at the grocery store on the way there and buy a couple of prime steaks to hand over to the chef to cook for you? What if it turns out to be as tough as an old shoe?

Jus' say'n.
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Old 04-10-2019, 01:00 PM
Rodger Knox Rodger Knox is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duh View Post
I'm thinking of buying some wood, Rosewood and Redwood, and just putting it in the garage for now but later asking a Luthier to build me a guitar. Is there anything I need to know about the thickness if I wanted a something like a HD35? Also, is there any way to determine if it is decent wood? Is there any difference between precut luthier Classical cut and a Dreadnought?
The answer depends on why you want to acquire the wood. If you're concerned that better wood will not be available in the future, and you have access to a set of exceptional BRW or Bois de Rose for less than a small fortune, it might be a good idea. Some mahogany from "the Tree" or Lucky Strike redwood might also be worthwhile.

Anything less rare will probably be available well into the future, and luthiers will have properly seasoned sets in their wood locker that will most likely be as good or better than whatever you could buy now. Builders frequently buy wood several years prior to using it, so what is available now will likely be in someone's wood locker in 5 or 10 years.
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Old 04-10-2019, 03:45 PM
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You should be a little careful buying wood for a number of reasons:

1) Grading wood is tough business and it's part of the reasons luthiers charge a premium for their wood.

2) You don't know what you don't know (unless you know). Is it wide enough? Is it thick enough? Is there some issue in the wood that the luthier will have to work around?

3) Some luthiers build the profit from tonewood into their margin and may not like to accept a set where they won't profit.

4) Some luthiers may not be open to using customer-supplied wood, period. I can totally understand why.
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Old 04-10-2019, 04:28 PM
BenjaminPaldacci BenjaminPaldacci is offline
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As professional builder for 6 years, and Wood afficionados for the same amount of years, there are things I didn't even know months ago. I am still young in our business, but I think I can make the difference beetween premium wood, excellent wood, great wood, good wood, and Dump.

When I've supplied myself at the early begining of my carreer, I have made some choice I regret (but only because I could have found better supply if I've known other suppliers. The choice itself is not bad)... and It was after my graduation at school (4 years to study lutherie)

I don't know what you are doing for a living, but if it is not in the instrument making there is a lot of risk, that you won't be able to chose wisely the material you would want for your future guitar.

Personally, I refuse woods from my customer because I can't trace how it was seasoned. Buying some woods to a supplier because my customer have seen and want so bad, I don't have any problem with that. Maybe you should ask to your builder, if he is agreed with your choice
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Old 04-10-2019, 08:09 PM
Duh Duh is offline
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Thanks for all your input. I guess I'm feeling two things: One, the availability of old stock Brazilian rosewood is dwindling and so, if I don't buy now, I won't have it later as a choice.

Two, because of who I know in the mountains in California, it might be a good idea to get something akin to sinker redwood while I can. I'm not sure I would have the opportunity later.

The other possibility is simply sock the money away and buy a guitar that I can play and know that I will like. I'm not sure if that will be a redwood/BR combo or simply get a Goodall or Lowden with IR when I think I'm ready. It doesn't have to be with Brazilian, I don't think I could afford either, but a Goodall and a Lowden have a sound that's just different enough from a Martin (I have a HD35) that I feel I'd got two distinctive sounds.
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Old 04-11-2019, 12:39 AM
tadol tadol is offline
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Its funny, because I kinda thought I understood wood, but I had the chance to do a little shopping with Bruce Sexauer while we were in Italy, going thru piles of premium tops from some of the absolute best tonewood suppliers in the world. I found dozens and dozens of tops that looked and felt fantastic to me, and I’d show them to Bruce and he mostly glanced at them and said “Eh - I wouldn’t use it.” And it took me a long time to really look and evaluate each one. But when I watched Bruce go thru a stack, he could eliminate most within a few seconds, elminate more in well under a 1/2 minute, and the tops he did eventually choose were clearly outstanding. The couple of guitars he’s built with them certainly support that -

If you want to build yourself, buy some wood and go for it - but if you want a luthier to build for you, trust their judgement in the materials they want to use, from suppliers they know and trust. If you really want to invest in premium tonewoods, make sure you buy them from a very reputable supplier. Or get them cheap, and have another use in mind for them if they aren’t good enough -
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Old 04-11-2019, 08:23 AM
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iim7V7IM7 iim7V7IM7 is offline
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A couple thoughts:
  • As others have mentioned, selection of softwood top and hardwood back/side sets for a particular guitar model and player's goals is an art best left to experienced luthiers. Otherwise, you are handicapping your luthier to be like a factory picking woods from a warehouse.
  • Aesthetic aspects of wood typically used in grading of wood by wood purveyors is inadequate to tell you about moisture content, density, stiffness and more subjective attributes such as tap tone. Other sawyering aspects relating to the stability of the wood are also difficult for the lay person to assess.
  • Wood is best air dried and seasoned before use in instrument building. For example, many luthiers wont use wood that has not been acclimatizing in their shop environments for many years.
  • Aside from ownership warranty issues, what happens when the builder cracks a side bending it during building? Normally, with luthier supplied wood, they are responsible. With client supplied wood, I suspect not.
  • I would personally spend more time identifying WHO you want to work with based on sampling their work at luthier exhibitions or a re-sellers and understanding YOUR GOALS FOR THE INSTRUMENT than prospectively buying wood blindly based on assumptive homogeneous results associated with wood species based on internet discussion.

Food for thought...
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Old 04-11-2019, 03:27 PM
ruby50 ruby50 is offline
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Is it true that you professional luthiers want backs and sides to acclimate in your shops for many years? I would think that the wood is so thin that it might acclimate in a few weeks or a couple of months.

I agree that instrument wood selection is a PhD level version of wood selection.

Ed
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Old 04-11-2019, 04:13 PM
BBWW BBWW is offline
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Wood buying for musical instruments is not for the faint of heart. The few builders that might build with customer owned woods would, above the list price, add a "corking fee" to use it. When non builders want to buy from me I ask if they have a builder and if they want to build with what I offer.

If your thought is to save money I don't recommend it. Work with a builder, let him find what you want.
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Old 04-11-2019, 08:42 PM
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You could always buy it and sell it later if you were that type.
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Old 04-12-2019, 01:48 PM
Simon Fay Simon Fay is offline
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Tonewood selection definitely isn't rocket science. Yes, many of us prefer not to use customer supplied wood but those are mostly financial issues. There are a number of excellent tonewood suppliers to the lutherie community and there's no difference between a customer buying the wood or a builder. These dealers provide tonewood that has already been seasoned and is ready to be used for a build. eBay is not reputable - so don't look there.

Make sure the wood is stored in an appropriate environment and it's fine. In terms of noticing quality. Just look for clean, quartersawn grain. You can learn to identify musical quality sets in no time with a bit of effort or talking to a builder. Feel free to drop me a line.

However, it isn't worth the effort unless you obtain something truly special that will be difficult to acquire at a later date. Also, make sure that whomever you select to build your guitar is okay with you supplying your own tonewood. Most of us don't want to use customer supplied wood.
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Last edited by Simon Fay; 04-13-2019 at 01:13 PM.
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