Unplugged Archtop Electric Acoustic Tonal Qualities

[ozarkmac]

I was going to ask these questions on a similar thread but did not want to hi-jack it.

Have you found that the tonal qualities of a unplugged archtop electric acoustic are not as good as a natural archtop acoustic? I'm referring to those that were manufactured as electrics, not after-market equipped.

I have limited experience with this issue but I have found this to be true. I assume this is based on the intended design of an electric to be plugged in.

I'm looking for an acoustic but have passed on some really nice electrics based on my theory.

Any specific manufacturers and models that this does not apply to? I'm sure there are some.

[mr. beaumont]

Absolutely.

Generally speaking, if you see a pickup cut into the top, like a set humbucker--you're looking at what is intended to be an electric guitar.

Which is not saying some of these guitars might not have a pleasant acoustic voice, because they might...but generally speaking, set pickup=electric.

The "floating pickup" is the general way archtop makers have tried to preserve the acoustic voice but make the guitar "amplifiable." (that's not a word, is it?) If you see a solid carved guitar with a floating pickup, you can be pretty sure some thought was put into how the guitar sounds unplugged.

Keep in mind, the amplified tone of an archtop is often very different from the acoustic voice--another variable!

Also, keep in mind, acoustic archtops in their "natural setting" (think rhythm guitar a la Freddie Green) were not meant to have their acoustic voice amplified much. Maybe (big maybe) you'd see a microphone...but generally the rhythm guitar was more for the band than the audience (though if you see a well balanced big band, the rhtyhm guitar does find it's way through, and it's a beautiful thing.)

Charlie Christian is to blame for all of this. Thank God for him

[ozarkmac]

That all makes sense. The general rule about floating pickups helps a lot. Thanks!

[ozarkmac]

In terms of unplugged tonal quality, would archtops factory-equipped with the "Duotron" bridge pickup be more apt to lack in unplugged tonal qualities?

[MC5C]

I agree with you that an electric archtop - set in pickups - probably won't have as good an acoustic tone as a guitar built and optimized to be an acoustic. I have never played an electric archtop that I found to have a pleasing acoustic tone. I built my own acoustic archtops because I could not find an acoustic archtop that I liked that I could even remotely afford, and because I could, and it turned out to be kind of fun.

[Livingston]

One other attribute that will indicate the builder's intent (acoustic vs. electric) is the method of bracing. Typically archtops designed to be played as an acoustic will have an x braced top while archtops designed to be played through an amplifier will typically have a parallel braced top.

[Livingston]

Probably too much info, but after posting, I started to look up luthiers' explanations for archtop design, bracing and acoustic vs. electric. Turns out, bracing design may not be so cut and dried when it comes to an acoustic vs. electric guitar. Anyway, some interesting articles to say the least:

Stefan Sonntag

Frans Elferink

Jimmy Foster

[ozarkmac]

Originally Posted by Livingston

One other attribute that will indicate the builder's intent (acoustic vs. electric) is the method of bracing. Typically archtops designed to be played as an acoustic will have an x braced top while archtops designed to be played through an amplifier will typically have a parallel braced top.

Good tip! Thanks!

[ozarkmac]

[QUOTE=Livingston;5999051]Probably too much info, but after posting, I started to look up luthiers' explanations for archtop design, bracing and acoustic vs. electric. Turns out, bracing design may not be so cut and dried when it comes to an acoustic vs. electric guitar. Anyway, some interesting articles to say the least:

Stefan Sonntag

Frans Elferink

Jimmy Foster[/QUOTE

Thanks for the information. Very interesting and educational for me. Now I understand how the sounds moves through each part of the guitar.

[Prof_Stack]

I have a Godin 5th Ave Jazz model archtop guitar, with floating pickup and neck not touching the top. I play it daily almost always in acoustic mode. It has a very pleasing acoustic tone, even for being laminated all around.

[MC5C]

And of course... https://theartoflutherie.com/acousti...bob-benedetto/

I've tried several different bracing methods, and I find that as long as you add required stiffness and keep them as light as possible (I end up with around 5/8" tall and triangular in cross-section, 5/16" wide on the base) most any bracing pattern can work well. I've done three brace X-brace, a variation on the traditional x-brace with an extra middle brace, I've done fan braces - four very light braces radiating out over the lower bout like a classical guitar, and I've done a completely traditional two parallel braces, and a variation of a traditional X brace with an additional cross brace across the lower bout below the bridge. I've also started to add a longitudinal brace directly between the neck and tail blocks around an inch below the top that takes up the majority of the longitudnal string load. To my ears they all sound great. I look for quite a modern tone, light and airy, round with strong bass and balanced trebles, not what some hear as the traditional punchy, midrangy archtop sound.

[cmajor9]

The main factors in determining the unplugged acoustic sound would likely be:


- Is the soundboard carved, solid pressed, or laminated
- Is the body full-depth (c. 3") or thinner?
- Is the pickup suspended (floating) over the top, or cut into the top

[cmajor9]

Originally Posted by Livingston

One other attribute that will indicate the builder's intent (acoustic vs. electric) is the method of bracing. Typically archtops designed to be played as an acoustic will have an x braced top while archtops designed to be played through an amplifier will typically have a parallel braced top.

In my experience this is not really the case. Many acoustic archtops meant to be played acoustically are parallel braced–this includes most vintage Gibson archtops (except between 1935-39), all Epiphone archtops, and most European-made archtops. Its true there was a trend with US boutique makers to make more X-braced guitars at one time, but now many offer the choice of bracing or (like Mark Campellone, for example) now mainly use parallel bracing.

[ozarkmac]

Originally Posted by cmajor9

The main factors in determining the unplugged acoustic sound would likely be:


- Is the soundboard carved, solid pressed, or laminated
- Is the body full-depth (c. 3") or thinner?
- Is the pickup suspended (floating) over the top, or cut into the top

This is great information.
What is a "safe" minimum body depth for an acoustic archtop in order to get the best tonal qualities?

[Silly Moustache]

I totally agree with Mr Matz (or Beaumont).

I really wish that the term "archtop" was not used to describe all the different aspects of guitars that aren't flat tops.

* There are carved top acoustic archtops, (which may or may not have floating pickups attached).
* There are acoustic "pressed" tops (like Harmonys) which are also acoustic but may have a floating p/u as above. n.b. these are not always bad sounding as as a big band rhythm box can also work quite well, esp for that essential "percussive" aspect.
* There are Electrics: i.e. "arched top" looking pieces which have pickups screwed to the top which are not acoustic instruments. They often have a fence post under the top onto which the pickup has really been screwed and to deaden the resonance of the (often laminated) top. semi hollow bodied electrics. They may or may not have f holes but have no acoustic value to speak of.

N.B. Godin don't make acoustic archtops.