Two Piece necks on high end Martins

[RagtopGT]

Originally Posted by LordRasor

“A cork sniffer is one who'll buy a really expensive and well made guitar by an excellent maker, and then find fault with it. Criticize the thickness or the color of the binding on the neck, or the height of the frets, or the shape of the neck”

Although not recently, I've seen threads where some owners insisted that the presence of bear claw was indicative of poor quality control and would eventually cause a Sitka top to fail.

[musicman1951]

Originally Posted by JayBee1404

If someone’s world is knocked off-axis by the thought of their new guitar having a two-piece neck, I’m guessing their head would spontaneously combust if the guitar had a five-piece neck, like my Lowdens’ necks!


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I have to admit I am sometimes puzzled over guitarist's priorities. We go from many posts that proclaim "I use an "xxx" capo and the intonation is good enough for me" to how many pieces of wood are in my guitar neck.

But I love it. I have both a Martin and Lowden, so I'm covered on this one.

[mercy]

It is true that 2 or more piece necks are stronger than 1 piece but to me an expensive guitar should have 1 piece. It is cheaper to build a multi piece neck so the savings goes to the builder. But on this thread we are confusing two different types of multi piece necks. The stacked heel variety and the laminated variety ie Lowden etc. which is pieces glued longitudinally. This can be a very pretty neck and is super strong. The stacked heel variety is strong but not pretty.

[hat]

I would much prefer a 2 piece neck joined in the middle, than a one piece with wings, or a scarfed heel! I wouldn't even mind if they laminated some contrasting wood in with it - Walnut, Maple, or ??? Much preferable to me than spanish cedar, or that plywood neck they use on the low end series guitars.

[LordRasor]

Originally Posted by hat

I would much prefer a 2 piece neck joined in the middle, than a one piece with wings, or a scarfed heel! I wouldn't even mind if they laminated some contrasting wood in with it - Walnut, Maple, or ??? Much preferable to me than spanish cedar, or that plywood neck they use on the low end series guitars.

Yeah I agree. There is a lot of hate on guitars that contain any laminate. While I understand the perspective, I personally think some HPL guitars are great for the “knock-around/bon fire” guitars. I have heard some guitars made with HPL (high-pressure laminate) back and sides that actually sounded better tonally than some all-wood guitars.

It’s all preference and personal opinion. I do believe that once you start spending thousands of dollars on a guitar, you should know EXACTLY what you get.. not just speculate on the “Select Hardwood” material they used for the neck.

I understand why Martin labeled all the necks as “select hardwood”, but I wish they would provide additional details based on serial number.

[mercy]

select hardwood is a synonym for we just made another dollar.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by LordRasor

Yeah I agree. There is a lot of hate on guitars that contain any laminate. While I understand the perspective, I personally think some HPL guitars are great for the “knock-around/bon fire” guitars. I have heard some guitars made with HPL (high-pressure laminate) back and sides that actually sounded better tonally than some all-wood guitars.

It’s all preference and personal opinion. I do believe that once you start spending thousands of dollars on a guitar, you should know EXACTLY what you get.. not just speculate on the “Select Hardwood” material they used for the neck.

I understand why Martin labeled all the necks as “select hardwood”, but I wish they would provide additional details based on serial number.

I suspect that with Martin it's just about marketing; those who care about such things are more likely to prefer a guitar with 'mahogany' in the descriptor than 'Spanish cedar', thus the potential for unsold guitars hanging around in retailers. Just guessing of course.
'Select hardwood' is a handy catch-all, leaving aside that supplies of mahogany are not guaranteed at any one time.

[drive-south]

Originally Posted by mercy

It is true that 2 or more piece necks are stronger than 1 piece but to me an expensive guitar should have 1 piece. It is cheaper to build a multi piece neck so the savings goes to the builder. But on this thread we are confusing two different types of multi piece necks. The stacked heel variety and the laminated variety ie Lowden etc. which is pieces glued longitudinally. This can be a very pretty neck and is super strong. The stacked heel variety is strong but not pretty.

I agree with this post. I love a multi piece necks with the peices glued lengthwise. Gibson has been building the most high end guitars such as L5, S400 this way for years. However I have a strong aversion to scarf joints and heel stacks. They just look ugly and cheap to me.

[JayBee1404]

Originally Posted by mercy

It is true that 2 or more piece necks are stronger than 1 piece but to me an expensive guitar should have 1 piece. It is cheaper to build a multi piece neck so the savings goes to the builder. But on this thread we are confusing two different types of multi piece necks. The stacked heel variety and the laminated variety ie Lowden etc. which is pieces glued longitudinally. This can be a very pretty neck and is super strong. The stacked heel variety is strong but not pretty.

With specific reference to the piece in bold, I don’t think that’s the case - Martin two-piece necks aren’t the ‘stacked-heel’ variety, they are joined longitudinally, certainly that’s the case on their Standard Series (18 and upwards), which is what I believe the OP was inquiring about.

I wouldn’t have a problem with a Martin which had a longitudinally-joined two-piece neck - we don’t care that tops and backs are made from two (or more) pieces of wood joined together, so what’s the problem with a neck that’s similarly constructed?

The usual disclaimers apply......IMHO, YMMV etc.

[Dru Edwards]

Originally Posted by JayBee1404

It’s not ‘sunk right into a seam’ it’s to one side (photo angle gives a wrong impression) and it’s exactly where the builders said it should go. Put there seventeen years ago, never had a problem. No worries here.

I just checked my Lowden and yes, the strap button is in the same location as your guitar. I'm not concerned either.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by mercy

It is cheaper to build a multi piece neck so the savings goes to the builder.

That isn't likely true. Particularly in more expensive instruments, the biggest cost is labour. There is more labour in multi-piece necks than single-piece sawn necks. The increase in labour is probably larger than the decrease in material cost.

Originally Posted by hat

Much preferable to me than spanish cedar, or that plywood neck they use on the low end series guitars.

I'm just curious. What is that you don't like about Spanish cedar?

[LordRasor]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

That isn't likely true. Particularly in more expensive instruments, the biggest cost is labour. There is more labour in multi-piece necks than single-piece sawn necks. The increase in labour is probably larger than the decrease in material cost.




I'm just curious. What is that you don't like about Spanish cedar?

I also had a question about this. If someone could provide some information as to why Spanish Cedar is under the category of “Select Hardwood”. From what I had heard, Spanish Cedar is more porous and a softer wood than mahogany.

Additionally, I was curious about my original post that started this thread if someone would be able to tell me without a doubt if the neck is Spanish Cedar or HOG. So far, we have one person who said it’s HOG. In a different forum we had people saying it was Spanish Cedar. I know at this point we are all taking our best guess based on wood grain pattern, and unfortunately Martin is not able to provide that information off the serial #.

[perttime]

Originally Posted by LordRasor

... why Spanish Cedar is under the category of “Select Hardwood”. From what I had heard, Spanish Cedar is more porous and a softer wood than mahogany.
....

The term hardwood has nothing to do with how hard the wood is. It is about how it grows. Balsa is a hardwood.

... I don't remember the specifics ...

[Paddy1951]

Originally Posted by mercy

select hardwood is a synonym for we just made another dollar.

I will politely disagree. There will come the day when the one piece honduran mahogany neck will be in the same catagory as a Brazilian rosewood body.
It will be a rare and expensive thing, quite expensive thing.
I had Martin 0000 that had a "select hardwood" one piece neck. It was Spanish Cedar. This wood is very similar to Honduran mahogany. Not cedar at all. It was not quite as hard as HM. It was very stable. It was also a bit lighter in weight.

I recently sold the guitar because it became difficult to play. On me, not the guitar. A stroke weakened my fretting hand. I actually really miss the guitar but I now go with skinny necks, short scale and better fitting (for me) neck profiles.

Unless your pockets are always going to be deep, you might as well get used to new ways, new woods and materials.

There are other woods that are as good and sometimes better than the woods we are most accustomed to.

Before you judge a new wood, research it. You may often be surprised by its characteristics.

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by Paddy1951

I will politely disagree. There will come the day when the one piece honduran mahogany neck will be in the same catagory as a Brazilian rosewood body.
It will be a rare and expensive thing, quite expensive thing.
I had Martin 0000 that had a "select hardwood" one piece neck. It was Spanish Cedar. This wood is very similar to Honduran mahogany. Not cedar at all. It was not quite as hard as HM. It was very stable. It was also a bit lighter in weight.

I recently sold the guitar because it became difficult to play. On me, not the guitar. A stroke weakened my fretting hand. I actually really miss the guitar but I now go with skinny necks, short scale and better fitting (for me) neck profiles.

Unless your pockets are always going to be deep, you might as well get used to new ways, new woods and materials.

There are other woods that are as good and sometimes better than the woods we are most accustomed to.

Before you judge a new wood, research it. You may often be surprised by its characteristics.

I have noticed recently a few manufacturers using laurel for fretboards instead of rosewood. CITES is starting to bite.