NewAmpDay

[3notes]

I received the new Fender Super Champ x2 today. The lacquered tweed looks very nice. The amp is pleasing to the eye.

I popped a tootsie roll and tore into the well packaged box and saw the amp. Beautiful. Set it in place and contemplated which guitar to preview with. I chose the Yamaha Pacifica strat copy over the Gretsch. I love my Yamaha.

I started playing plugged into the clean channel. Checked out the volume levels and it was impressive. Clean as clean can be. BUT, this is a curveball and I am just baffled. I played on the 2nd channel with effects and without, and the yamaha sounded horrible. Absolutely horrible. I'm stunned. I continue to change voicings and settings but nothing helped this bland, super midtone heavy sound. I think most would call it mud. No sparkling highs. At all. The low end has good tone but doen't stick around for the listener to enjoy it. Through many different settings, nothing but MIDTONE.

I stopped playing after briefly trying the Gretsch, which sounded a bit better but my bubble had sort of burst with the fail of the Yamaha. I decided to wait until my housemate got home to play again to find out if she was hearing what I was hearing. Yup. She heard it. Get this story.....

She got home from work and was tired. She sat on the couch and said she would listen from there. She didn't want to get up. I played 3 chords and she appears in the room with a disgruntled face. She says, 'something is out of tune. Something is wrong.' I kind of laugh and say ya, what the heck. Let me just say my hearing and thoughts were justified. She got up off the darn couch to tell me so.

I can't make this up..... This evening I played the Gretsch and was floored by the tones. Out of this world, off the charts good, fantastic. And I didn't touch the settings much. Excellent note articulation and playing rhythm sounded like a dream to me. What a sound. Very pleased with the amp and Gretsch but...... If I can't play the yamaha more than the Gretsch. That's a problem.

I'll try describe whats going on with the Yamaha. When I play a 1, 4, 5 progression, there is no chord articulation. When I slide up to the 5th, it sounds like the 4th. The tone doesn't change when I slide up.?? It's almost as if the 5th chordis a lowe3r octave than the 4th chord, as strange as that may sound. No pun intended. I just now played for a minute. It's all true what I am saying here. I'm lost. I, we, are hearing ONE BIG MUDDY CHORD no matter what chords I play. There is NOTHING exciting about playing my favorite guitar. In fact, I can't do it. I can't get through the first 6 barres. The guitar sounds out of tune. Incredibly flat. Midtone top to bottom. That's what Beth kept telling me over and over... It's Out Of Tune.!!! Stop.!!! I wish you could see the looks on her face. She is a fantastic flute player, btw.

Why does the Gretsch work and the Yamaha doesn't.?? It has an Emminence Ragin Cajun for a speaker. I hate it. No, wait, I love it. Huh,?? Gretsch Yay. Yamaha Nay. Whats going on here.??

If I can't play the Yamaha through the amp I think it will have to go back. I am just out of my mind over this. Baffled. Hoping you all can help. I dunno, me. That said, I'll be patient with it for up to 2 weeks, I guess. The Yamaha sounds fantastic through my Champion 20. Matter of fact, I bought the amp BECAUSE the Yamaha sounds so great through the Champ 20.(meaning the tone would only get better) So weird. Anybody.?? It sounds like something is backwards. Out of phase. I'm lost.

[Jaden]

A good amp will expose poor quality pickups. Upgrading the amp will invite upgrading the guitar. Sounds like the Gretsch is a good match. Not sure of the voicing of the new speaker, but bright is the way to go, then roll back tone control on the guitar as necessary.

[Maryc-k]

I have a Top Hat Portly Cadet. Great with single coils......absolute mud with humbuckers. So, not every amp loves every guitar.

[3notes]

Originally Posted by Maryc-k

I have a Top Hat Portly Cadet. Great with single coils......absolute mud with humbuckers. So, not every amp loves every guitar.

Really.?? A Fender amp not liking a strat copy with alnico pickups. Say it ain't so. .....

Jaden .... there is absolutly nothing bright about this set up. Purely uninspiring tone.

[FrankHudson]

I've never actually spent time with a the Super Champ X2, though I have its immediate predecessor, the Super Champ XD that I bought shortly after they came out.

Mine of course has the smaller 10 inch speaker. And I don't have a Pacifica guitar of any type. So differences.

But I wouldn't call my example a mid-rangey amp. Of course there are 16 voices, sort of emulating various amps, but several of them are meant to mimic the classic Fender Blackface amps*, famous for their scooped midrange--so while there are various ways to describe amp sounds, too much midrange no matter what settings doesn't sound right.

I was curious what setting I've been using (I don't really note these things) so I dropped in on my studio tonight after reading your post. My Super Champ was still set as I last used it late last month.

CHannel-Select 2 (little white button in, the red light should be on between the Gain and Volume 2 knobs) , Gain 2.6, Volume 3, Voice 7, Treble 7, Bass 3.3, F/X Level 3.3, F/X Select Reverb

The voice knob that selects amp models uses a different sequence and some different models on your X2 version, but I saw that it was voice 7 I'd been last using--the Vox setting on the XD. On the X2 that'd probably be voice 9. I am on the 2nd channel (the modeling channel) not the "Champ as Champ" Channel 1.

I even played the thing for about 15 minutes though I couldn't stay long. I grabbed a Line 6 JTV "Strat" with the stock magnetic single coil pickups (not modeling though the special bridge piezos), a Fender Squier Bigsby Tele with Tele style single coils, and Les Paul faded with 57 classic humbucker pickups. Without tweaking anything I didn't find the Strat-alike mid-rangey, nor the Tele. The LP had more midrange, but then it was a Les Paul and I really need to put on a set of fresh strings on it too.

I rarely push the gain knob higher than 4 or 5 on my Super Champ XD. It's not the amp for heavy crunch much less full on distortion I think, but the cleans and lighter crunch sounds please me at low studio volumes. When you describe "out of tune-ness" I'm wondering if you're hitting it with more gain and maybe cranking the volume higher than I use it at too. Other possibilities might be a bad or damaged tube, though your "Gretsch sounds fine, Pacifica doesn't" report leans against that.


*The Fender "tweed" generation is also represented with models on the XD and your X2, and those are not as scooped. This is another classic sound many love, but they're not the ones to choose if you want less midrange. Some blackface type Fender players play with lots of treble and even dial back the bass setting on their amp. Particularly on lower wattage amps this helps them cut through in a band mix, and Fender guitars often have very useful tone controls to reduce that bite a bit. Blackface models on your X2 would be voices 5, 7, and 8.

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by 3notes

Really.?? A Fender amp not liking a strat copy with alnico pickups. Say it ain't so. .....

Probably this is meant to be addressed to my post (above).

I will say, however, whenever I read of an amp, no matter the cost, that results in muddy performance from good quality humbuckers, the amp is at fault - first, the speaker could be dark voiced. Dark voicing is a cop out - the goal with amplification is bright, colourful articulation - good HBs will sound chimey and extremely touch sensitive - depending on how you strike the string, you will achieve varying tone colour according to your preference.

[3notes]

Originally Posted by FrankHudson

I've never actually spent time with a the Super Champ X2, though I have its immediate predecessor, the Super Champ XD that I bought shortly after they came out.

Mine of course has the smaller 10 inch speaker. And I don't have a Pacifica guitar of any type. So differences.

But I wouldn't call my example a mid-rangey amp. Of course there are 16 voices, sort of emulating various amps, but several of them are meant to mimic the classic Fender Blackface amps*, famous for their scooped midrange--so while there are various ways to describe amp sounds, too much midrange no matter what settings doesn't sound right.

I was curious what setting I've been using (I don't really note these things) so I dropped in on my studio tonight after reading your post. My Super Champ was still set as I last used it late last month.

CHannel-Select 2 (little white button in, the red light should be on between the Gain and Volume 2 knobs) , Gain 2.6, Volume 3, Voice 7, Treble 7, Bass 3.3, F/X Level 3.3, F/X Select Reverb

The voice knob that selects amp models uses a different sequence and some different models on your X2 version, but I saw that it was voice 7 I'd been last using--the Vox setting on the XD. On the X2 that'd probably be voice 9. I am on the 2nd channel (the modeling channel) not the "Champ as Champ" Channel 1.

I even played the thing for about 15 minutes though I couldn't stay long. I grabbed a Line 6 JTV "Strat" with the stock magnetic single coil pickups (not modeling though the special bridge piezos), a Fender Squier Bigsby Tele with Tele style single coils, and Les Paul faded with 57 classic humbucker pickups. Without tweaking anything I didn't find the Strat-alike mid-rangey, nor the Tele. The LP had more midrange, but then it was a Les Paul and I really need to put on a set of fresh strings on it too.

I rarely push the gain knob higher than 4 or 5 on my Super Champ XD. It's not the amp for heavy crunch much less full on distortion I think, but the cleans and lighter crunch sounds please me at low studio volumes. When you describe "out of tune-ness" I'm wondering if you're hitting it with more gain and maybe cranking the volume higher than I use it at too. Other possibilities might be a bad or damaged tube, though your "Gretsch sounds fine, Pacifica doesn't" report leans against that.


*The Fender "tweed" generation is also represented with models on the XD and your X2, and those are not as scooped. This is another classic sound many love, but they're not the ones to choose if you want less midrange. Some blackface type Fender players play with lots of treble and even dial back the bass setting on their amp. Particularly on lower wattage amps this helps them cut through in a band mix, and Fender guitars often have very useful tone controls to reduce that bite a bit. Blackface models on your X2 would be voices 5, 7, and 8.

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I am right in your roundhouse when it comes to settings. I rarely push the gain. Gain is rarely above 3. I like to push the volume on the amp and use the tone and volume knobs on the guitar. That is very beneficial on the Yamaha. The Yamaha has an excellent range of both, volume and tone on the guitar. In otherwords, rolling the knobs is effective throughout the entire range. Now the Gretsch is another story. I roll the volume knob back from full and I lose all volume right around the 50% mark. I hate that. It's nearly a joke compared to the Yamaha.

Here's some further evidence that this guitar and amp don't get along..... As I was playing(honestly i didn't play much) I would stop with bitterness and click on my chromatic tuner to check the tuning. Tuning was in and right on. I was also stopping in the middle of playing to check that I wasn't pulling or pushing some notes sharp. Upon inspection the G string and B string spacing looked ever so slightly out. The issue isn't that. It seems to be much larger than that.

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by 3notes

I received the new Fender Super Champ x2 today. The lacquered tweed looks very nice. The amp is pleasing to the eye.

I popped a tootsie roll and tore into the well packaged box and saw the amp. Beautiful. Set it in place and contemplated which guitar to preview with. I chose the Yamaha Pacifica strat copy over the Gretsch. I love my Yamaha.

I started playing plugged into the clean channel. Checked out the volume levels and it was impressive. Clean as clean can be. BUT, this is a curveball and I am just baffled. I played on the 2nd channel with effects and without, and the yamaha sounded horrible. Absolutely horrible. I'm stunned. I continue to change voicings and settings but nothing helped this bland, super midtone heavy sound. I think most would call it mud. No sparkling highs. At all. The low end has good tone but doen't stick around for the listener to enjoy it. Through many different settings, nothing but MIDTONE.

I stopped playing after briefly trying the Gretsch, which sounded a bit better but my bubble had sort of burst with the fail of the Yamaha. I decided to wait until my housemate got home to play again to find out if she was hearing what I was hearing. Yup. She heard it. Get this story.....

She got home from work and was tired. She sat on the couch and said she would listen from there. She didn't want to get up. I played 3 chords and she appears in the room with a disgruntled face. She says, 'something is out of tune. Something is wrong.' I kind of laugh and say ya, what the heck. Let me just say my hearing and thoughts were justified. She got up off the darn couch to tell me so.

I can't make this up..... This evening I played the Gretsch and was floored by the tones. Out of this world, off the charts good, fantastic. And I didn't touch the settings much. Excellent note articulation and playing rhythm sounded like a dream to me. What a sound. Very pleased with the amp and Gretsch but...... If I can't play the yamaha more than the Gretsch. That's a problem.

I'll try describe whats going on with the Yamaha. When I play a 1, 4, 5 progression, there is no chord articulation. When I slide up to the 5th, it sounds like the 4th. The tone doesn't change when I slide up.?? It's almost as if the 5th chordis a lowe3r octave than the 4th chord, as strange as that may sound. No pun intended. I just now played for a minute. It's all true what I am saying here. I'm lost. I, we, are hearing ONE BIG MUDDY CHORD no matter what chords I play. There is NOTHING exciting about playing my favorite guitar. In fact, I can't do it. I can't get through the first 6 barres. The guitar sounds out of tune. Incredibly flat. Midtone top to bottom. That's what Beth kept telling me over and over... It's Out Of Tune.!!! Stop.!!! I wish you could see the looks on her face. She is a fantastic flute player, btw.

Why does the Gretsch work and the Yamaha doesn't.?? It has an Emminence Ragin Cajun for a speaker. I hate it. No, wait, I love it. Huh,?? Gretsch Yay. Yamaha Nay. Whats going on here.??

If I can't play the Yamaha through the amp I think it will have to go back. I am just out of my mind over this. Baffled. Hoping you all can help. I dunno, me. That said, I'll be patient with it for up to 2 weeks, I guess. The Yamaha sounds fantastic through my Champion 20. Matter of fact, I bought the amp BECAUSE the Yamaha sounds so great through the Champ 20.(meaning the tone would only get better) So weird. Anybody.?? It sounds like something is backwards. Out of phase. I'm lost.

I’m sorry you’re having difficulties - someone with experience with the Yamaha may be able to give advice.

[paulp1960]

I would make sure the Yamaha pickups are not set too close to the strings as that can cause out of tune type sounds. But apart from that I can't think of many other suggestions.

[Chickee]

3Note,
Tell me about the Yamaha. I’m not familiar. All single coil? Or HSS set up?
What model is the yammie?
I run a plethora of different guitars thru these x2’s and haven’t run into this issue of not being able to dial in a good, solid sound. I want to help if I can.
What I have noticed is the Ragin’ Cajun speaker seems “rougher” right now than the greenback did as it was breaking in. I’m still working in the new speaker blue X2.
Frankie

[FrankHudson]

Originally Posted by 3notes

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I am right in your roundhouse when it comes to settings. I rarely push the gain. Gain is rarely above 3. I like to push the volume on the amp and use the tone and volume knobs on the guitar. That is very beneficial on the Yamaha. The Yamaha has an excellent range of both, volume and tone on the guitar. In otherwords, rolling the knobs is effective throughout the entire range. Now the Gretsch is another story. I roll the volume knob back from full and I lose all volume right around the 50% mark. I hate that. It's nearly a joke compared to the Yamaha.

Here's some further evidence that this guitar and amp don't get along..... As I was playing(honestly i didn't play much) I would stop with bitterness and click on my chromatic tuner to check the tuning. Tuning was in and right on. I was also stopping in the middle of playing to check that I wasn't pulling or pushing some notes sharp. Upon inspection the G string and B string spacing looked ever so slightly out. The issue isn't that. It seems to be much larger than that.

Well there goes one theory (too much gain).

Your experience is really a puzzle, and we may be getting into that area where "writing about music is like dancing about architecture" makes it hard to tell what's going on. If it wasn't for the "Gretsch sounds fine, Pacifica sounds impossibly horrid" report I'd say my leading theory would be you have one with duff or damaged in shipping tubes. Similarly it could be a damaged or duff speaker I might have supposed, but the "Gretsch sounds fine."

I wonder if the amp's USB recording feature is just the preamp (which as I recall used a tube for "tube feel" or something, but isn't a tube pre-amp as such.) If so that would possibly eliminate the power amp tubes and certainly the speaker from the equation.

Audio examples of what you're experiencing might help. If you do post audio, let us know what amp settings you're using.

[roylor4]

Originally Posted by 3notes

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I am right in your roundhouse when it comes to settings. I rarely push the gain. Gain is rarely above 3. I like to push the volume on the amp and use the tone and volume knobs on the guitar. That is very beneficial on the Yamaha. The Yamaha has an excellent range of both, volume and tone on the guitar. In otherwords, rolling the knobs is effective throughout the entire range. Now the Gretsch is another story. I roll the volume knob back from full and I lose all volume right around the 50% mark. I hate that. It's nearly a joke compared to the Yamaha.

Here's some further evidence that this guitar and amp don't get along..... As I was playing(honestly i didn't play much) I would stop with bitterness and click on my chromatic tuner to check the tuning. Tuning was in and right on. I was also stopping in the middle of playing to check that I wasn't pulling or pushing some notes sharp. Upon inspection the G string and B string spacing looked ever so slightly out. The issue isn't that. It seems to be much larger than that.

This is more of an issue with the taper on the Gretsch volume pot than the X2. In some guitars, when you roll back the tone knob all the way, you lose 70% or more of your volume.

You could have a defective (or VERY cheap) volume pot on the Gretsch.

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by roylor4

This is more of an issue with the taper on the Gretsch volume pot than the X2. In some guitars, when you roll back the tone knob all the way, you lose 70% or more of your volume.

You could have a defective (or VERY cheap) volume pot on the Gretsch.

That’s really unfortunate about the volume taper - for home use I depend on rolling back volume more than 50%, and in addition a 80% roll back on tone (treble reduction) which doesn’t effect volume at all, all on a Classic Vibe Telecaster that has weighted tone and volume pots, all at a bargain price.

[3notes]

Originally Posted by paulp1960

I would make sure the Yamaha pickups are not set too close to the strings as that can cause out of tune type sounds. But apart from that I can't think of many other suggestions.

The pickups are in the stock position. Sounds great on my other amp, a Champion 20. Bridge is up there and the other 2 step down as you move towards the neck. Pickup height is good. Thanks for your reply. It's a valid question.

[3notes]

OP here reporting back.

I had lots of time this morning with the new Super Champ. The seller is sending me a return label. Here's what they are doing for me. They are sending a return label and paying for shipping. That's awesome in its self. They are sending me another Super Champ to try after they've received mine in good condition. The amp they'll send out is a step up from the Ragin Cajun to a Celestion g10 Greenback. I don't think the speaker has much to do with the issues I was having. I'm getting a 'better' amp at no cost to me. Sweetwater. I wasn't going to bring up their name but they are treating me right after I wasn't 100% pleasant in demeanor. Its just that I had no idea this happens. I know now and I'm really hoping the new amp is everything I know it can be.

I played the Gretsch through the Super Champ for a 1/2 hour this morning. I think I mentioned this in my other thread that the Gretsch sound through the Super Champ is award winning. I'm learning that better sound will make me a better player. I love that tube vibe. Sounds incredibly full. Well rounded. Better days are ahead.... Thank you Sweetwater.