Custom Build Question

jb83 · #1 08-04-2021, 05:25 AM

I just received my custom build from an up and coming luthier. It's a classic Martin style dred that sounds amazing, but unfortunately I found that the nut width is 1 3/4 versus the 1 11/16 that I specified.

This is quite a ways off from what I asked for, and I know that my enjoyment of the instrument is going to be less than it should be, especially given the high price.

Have any of you run into this issue? I thought about having the luthier send me a picture verifying the nut width before he shipped it, but it seemed like that would be insulting his intelligence. And yet, here we are.

I love how the guitar sounds, and it is certainly playable for me, but I'm definitely conflicted. Any advice on how to handle this issue?

Mandobart · #2 08-04-2021, 05:46 AM

As huge as this 1/16" (.062") seems to you, it's very easy to mis-measure the nut width depending on the tool used and skill of the measurer.

Your typical consumer big-box Home Despot tape measure can easily be off this amount, especially when used by a casual tool user. You're expecting an accuracy of ± .062 out of 1.75 or ±3.5% when the floating end of the tape can move back and forth more than that amount. I could send you a picture of the exact same item being measured and have the tape reading .125" different on each measurement.

Use a machinist's caliper or micrometer and measure multiple points across the nut and see what you get. Better yet take the guitar to a master carpenter or machinist to measure and see what they read before casting aspersions on your builder.

RoyBoy · #3 08-04-2021, 07:27 AM

I agree with mandobart. Also, on many traditional dreads the ends of the nut are angled to match the taper where the neck transitions into the peghead. The critical measure is how wide is the nut where it abuts the fingerboard, as this is what affects string spacing. If you have a good ruler, measure the width of the fingerboard at the nut.

How does the string spacing feel to you? I had an Eastman dread with a 1 3/4" nut but the string spacing was more like 11/16". I alternate back and forth between electric and acoustic so it wasn't as huge of an issue for me, but that 1/8" of space between the outside of the strings and edges of the fretboard was excessive.

gr81dorn · #4 08-04-2021, 08:11 AM

As mentioned, make sure your measurement is accurate. If it is, then you have every right to request that the luthier address the issue. A defined specification like nut width is defined for a reason.

That said, there is a degree of tolerance that I think everyone is allowed, especially guys who hand carve the neck because they don't have the perfection of CNC to rely on.

I had a similar issue with a custom build a couple years ago, it was wide by arguably 1/16, but maybe 1/32. If I had my druthers, I would have liked it to err on the narrower side, but I just decided to keep it and live with it and I wasn't unhappy as much as I always wondered how it would have been with a bit narrower nut...

All that is to say, if you asked for something specific, and it was clearly defined in your build and it wasn't done so, you have every right to expect that the builder make it right.

jklotz · #5 08-04-2021, 08:35 AM

You could have another nut cut to bring in the spacing a little.

justonwo · #6 08-04-2021, 09:13 AM

The difference in spacing and feel between 1 11/16" and 1 3/4" is significant and obvious. I'm going to assume you felt the spacing was too wide and then confirmed with a measurement? If you confirmed by measurement, I hope you used a set of digital calipers?

There is a tiny bit of measurement variability in nut width because it can change in that area around the nut because 1) it may be starting to flare out to the headstock, 2) the nut may be sticking out of the slot slightly, and 3) you may be paranoid to squeeze the caliper too hard into the finish.

That being said, it would be hard to mistake 1 11/16" for 1 3/4". If the feel of the guitar is too wide for you AND you've confirmed the nut width is 1 3/4" with some level of accuracy, I think it would be totally fine to bring this up with the builder and expect some type of (hopefully polite) resolution.

If the guitar feels fine to you and the nut width is purely academic, I wouldn't worry about it.

jb83 · #7 08-04-2021, 10:29 AM

I’m trying to adapt as this is a great sounding guitar, but I’m a bit surprised by the majority of responses that seem to imply that I need to just “measure it again”. Anyone who has played guitar knows that there is a very substantial difference in feel between a 1 11/16 and 1 3/4 nut. I specifically wanted to go after the Martin feel after they transitioned to the narrower nut in the late 30s. It’s a VERY different feel from a 1 3/4 width.

justonwo · #8 08-04-2021, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jb83

I’m trying to adapt as this is a great sounding guitar, but I’m a bit surprised by the majority of responses that seem to imply that I need to just “measure it again”. Anyone who has played guitar knows that there is a very substantial difference in feel between a 1 11/16 and 1 3/4 nut. I specifically wanted to go after the Martin feel after they transitioned to the narrower nut in the late 30s. It’s a VERY different feel from a 1 3/4 width.

I think what you're seeing is people trying to be conservative and thoughtful before they suggest that you go after the builder with torches and pitchforks.

If you're confident the width is not correct, then I think you have every right to request that the builder replace the neck. I certainly would.

GeoffStGermaine · #9 08-04-2021, 12:25 PM

I'd proceed as Juston's suggests as well. Ask the luthier about it and what will be done to remedy it. From what you are suggesting the only remedy that makes the guitar of value to you is to correct the width of the nut. Whether that means an entirely new neck or modifying the existing neck likely depends on how the neck was constructed and the builder's preference for which will be less work and achieve the desired outcome (i.e. an as new neck with the correct nut width).

As a builder myself, the difference between 1 3/4 and 1 11/16 is sufficiently large that it is unreasonable that the builder would not be aware. I work metric and this would be 44.5 mm and 43 mm for me and it's a pretty obvious difference and one that would be noticed at many points during a build and setup. My first thought is that this is a simple, but significant mistake.

Bruce Sexauer · #10 08-04-2021, 03:17 PM

We say "Nut width", but what we usually mean is: The width of the neck where the nut meets the fingerboard. Measuring the nut itself depends on where the nut is measured. If the neck is 1 3/4" wide at the base of the nut where it hits the fingerboard, do what you will with the nut, the neck will feel the same. You can change only the string spacing, but if you space the strings as though it were a 1 11/16 "nut" there will be a strange amount of string set back from the edge of the neck, which would drive me nuts.

j. Kinnaird · #11 08-04-2021, 04:41 PM

Have him reduce the neck and make it what you want. It's not that hard to do
Making a neck smaller is a lot easier than making it wider.

justonwo · #12 08-04-2021, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j. Kinnaird

Have him reduce the neck and make it what you want. It's not that hard to do
Making a neck smaller is a lot easier than making it wider.

Yeah, and neck implants are potentially toxic.

mikealpine · #13 08-04-2021, 06:08 PM

I tried to adapt to a neck that was too wide. I should have sent it back immediately. The guitar sirs in its case. If it is wrong, it should be fixed at no pit-of-pocket cost to you.

tadol · #14 08-04-2021, 07:10 PM

All I’d say is that the first thing I would do anytime you have a problem with a custom built guitar is to make a polite call to the builder and talk about it with them before asking a bunch of people completely unfamiliar with the guitar, the builder, or the discussions leading up to the build what to do about it -

The Bard Rocks · #15 08-04-2021, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer

We say "Nut width", but what we usually mean is: The width of the neck where the nut meets the fingerboard. Measuring the nut itself depends on where the nut is measured. If the neck is 1 3/4" wide at the base of the nut where it hits the fingerboard, do what you will with the nut, the neck will feel the same. You can change only the string spacing, but if you space the strings as though it were a 1 11/16 "nut" there will be a strange amount of string set back from the edge of the neck, which would drive me nuts.

True enough, Just changing the nut could solve your dilemma - or maybe it wouldn't. It's a cheap and quick fix; shaving and refinishing the neck isn't. Bruce, I wonder if shifting the stings slightly toward the treble side would help n a neck that was too wide? It might work for some. If it worked, it would be a cheap and easy solution.

Now, if you were VERY clear to the builder that you wanted a 1 11/16" nut and your request got forgotten - and you are still within your trial period, then you would have the right to return it or have it made good. Which means a potentially long wait and some shipping fees. It may not be worth it to you. Regardless, talk to the guy and see what he suggests. He needs to know if he screwed up so it won't happen again.