Home made FishRite..we will see..

[sinistral]

Originally Posted by jazzereh

While I'm a sceptic on this kind of treatment, I'm enjoying reading this thread.

Hearing, or at least describing what you are hearing in words, can lead to placebo issues. I'm not going to say that what YOU hear with this guitar is wrong, you hear what you hear and that's fine. But, is there an actual checkpoint as to how the guitar sounded before you started?

Did you record the guitar, playing the same way you are playing it now, in the same environment, before treatment? Will others hear the difference?

Not trying to be argumentative but that's the only way to really know if there is a change over such a short time.

I did exactly that with a ToneRite on a Taylor guitar that had a particularly dead dead-note (F# at the 9th fret of the A string). The annoying thing was that the guitar’s sustain elsewhere was incredible, so a note that decayed after 4 - 5 seconds was frustratingly noticeable. After a week or so of using the ToneRite, the sustain of that note was noticeably longer—not 15 - 20 seconds like other notes, but around twice as long as before the ToneRite treatment (9 - 10 seconds).

[Scuzzo]

Originally Posted by Sadie-f

Agreed, I'm dubious on an audible change over only a week of application, let alone 3 days. If I wanted to do such an experiment, at the very least, I'd record using a reproducible setup, and pluck individual notes on all 6 strings with a measured deflection before release. Being me, I'd then analyze tone decay, and Fourier plots with an oscilloscope.

I also agree, I'm enjoying this thread :-)

if i had a quality enough mic.. i would do a spectrum analysis.. but i dont.. im from the electric world of guitar so all of my recording is done digital.. i was quite good at getting those kinda of mixes ballanced. but with acoustic? all i have if a silly cell phone mic.. and it will not pick out the nuance.. would have to load up my digital audio work station and the audio inface.. and im kinda digging not playing electric so much that its not worth the trouble back up my hypothesis.. if it is placebo then its a pretty cool sugar pill and i think i will refill my prescription.. cause the aging with a fish pump is kinda funny and cool.. but no, i dont have any proof what so ever.. im ok with that.. lol

[Horseflesh]

I have no opinion on the process but in principle, sure, I am open to the idea. And if the expensive gadget works, maybe a cheap hack can too.

Originally Posted by Sadie-f

Agreed, I'm dubious on an audible change over only a week of application, let alone 3 days. If I wanted to do such an experiment, at the very least, I'd record using a reproducible setup, and pluck individual notes on all 6 strings with a measured deflection before release. Being me, I'd then analyze tone decay, and Fourier plots with an oscilloscope.

I also agree, I'm enjoying this thread :-)

Bingo. If it works, it can be shown quantitatively.

Even without instrumentation, if you got two identical guitars... and processed one but not the other... You should be able to set up blind listening tests to see if people can tell the difference.

I too am enjoying this thread.

[egordon99]

Originally Posted by Horseflesh

I have no opinion on the process but in principle, sure, I am open to the idea. And if the expensive gadget works, maybe a cheap hack can too.



Bingo. If it works, it can be shown quantitatively.

Even without instrumentation, if you got two identical guitars... and processed one but not the other... You should be able to set up blind listening tests to see if people can tell the difference.

I too am enjoying this thread.

Only problem is there is no such thing as "two identical guitars".

[Horseflesh]

If you can't pick two from the same manufacturer that are close enough for such a test, you could do it by recording the same material pre- and post-treatment.

[egordon99]

My two cents: I purchased all my guitars because they sounded great to me in the store. I feel no need to try to "improve" them. I simply enjoy making music with them as they are.


(Obviously I didn't buy my 00-18 new and my Larrivee I ordered online but all my other acoustics were purchased in person)

[RFtinkerer]

I'm tempted to create some kind of vibe test. It got to the point I lowered the volume to the surface speaker due to increased noise in runs where it started annoying my wife, so I lowered it by 6 dB.

It would be nice if my company let me use the vibe test equipment for all of this...sine wave sweep, sine on AWGN, stuff like that in 3 axes. Watch the resonance points shift...

A guy can dream.

But it's nice to hear differences that even lay people can recognize it too.

[Scuzzo]

Originally Posted by RFtinkerer

I'm tempted to create some kind of vibe test. It got to the point I lowered the volume to the surface speaker due to increased noise in runs where it started annoying my wife, so I lowered it by 6 dB.

It would be nice if my company let me use the vibe test equipment for all of this...sine wave sweep, sine on AWGN, stuff like that in 3 axes. Watch the resonance points shift...

A guy can dream.

But it's nice to hear differences that even lay people can recognize it too.

Perhaps if I can find a simple decibel meter app for my phone and I can run a quick chord run through an my new Yamaha fs800.. and post findings.. but the instruments for such a test are crude...I don't know... I just thought I would throw my experience on my fish pump time machine. At some point you just play a thing and realize that wow, this thing sounds a bit sweeter.. placebo? Yea perhaps.. still it's all in good fun...

[egordon99]

I'd rather just spend my time playing songs/making music with my guitars.

[RFtinkerer]

Yeah I get it, but tinkering and optimization is fun for me. Not the same for other people obviously. A short investment of time and money yields more enjoyment for me when I can make already good things better.

[egordon99]

Originally Posted by RFtinkerer

Yeah I get it, but tinkering and optimization is fun for me. Not the same for other people obviously. A short investment of time and money yields more enjoyment for me when I can make already good things better.

Yep, totally understand some folks who like to geek out on strings/bridge pins/etc.

You do you.

[Scuzzo]

Originally Posted by egordon99

I'd rather just spend my time playing songs/making music with my guitars.

thats why at 430am i woke up to the tune waiting on a friend ,, the rolling stones tune.. and watched the cat playing it on the youtubes... and figured out hey that just a bunch of Fs and Cs and a Am ... dang Keith? such economy with notes and chord choices... gotta love it.. i still get play time in... lol

[stormin1155]

I have a Tonerite. It works... better on some guitars than others. But I've noticed that it doesn't vibrate quite as vigorously as it used to... like the batteries are going dead, only it doesn't take batteries. Maybe I'll go out and buy a $10 fish pump and strap it on top and see if that helps.

[Sadie-f]

Originally Posted by sinistral

I did exactly that with a ToneRite on a Taylor guitar that had a particularly dead dead-note (F# at the 9th fret of the A string). The annoying thing was that the guitar’s sustain elsewhere was incredible, so a note that decayed after 4 - 5 seconds was frustratingly noticeable. After a week or so of using the ToneRite, the sustain of that note was noticeably longer—not 15 - 20 seconds like other notes, but around twice as long as before the ToneRite treatment (9 - 10 seconds).

Interesting, I have a similar note on my OM-28 at G2 / E string. I've done some subjective testing using weights added at suspect points along the X bracing, my plan is to repeat this measuring with an oscilloscope, and also measuring the fundamental resonance of top, back and air while sweeping the relevant frequency range with a speaker positioned to excite each part independently ... plan A was to shave braces once I'm convinced I understand the resonance point. This guitar's open E is awe inspiring, so I don't want to lose that as a price of gaining some sustain on G notes.

[Scuzzo]

Day 6. It's doing fine. I am convinced there is something good happening. I compared it to my Garrison G20e.. and where as before I would say the garrison ,which is a much finer instrument.. had a really complex pallet, and character to its sound,, in every aspect was a better sounding instrument. After pump the Yamaha is really starting to develope a very musical character to it.. and in some aspects it's sounding as good or better than the G20e.. which is a cedar top with all wood birch back and sides.. I would have never said that before.. there was a wide gap between the two. But that gap has narrowed.. placebo..? Perhaps.. but ... it's doing good things,, that fish pump and bike tube time machine.. lol