How much acoustic is enough in a song?

[b1j]

Originally Posted by Rudy4

As the "band leader" you can imagine exactly what you want all your "band mates" to play and how they play the parts. Map out exactly what you want before starting the multi-track recording process. You want to imagine the entire band performance and end up with something that you can visually image in your mind and say, "Yeah, I'd go out and listen to these guys..."

Lay down a scratch track with guitar and vocals to serve as a road map for your recording. As far as your actual guitar playing style, play and sing like you're performing it solo. If you can capture the feel in a "scratch track" performance then you're half way there.

Record the individual parts and delete the scratch track. Add seasonings, adjusted to taste and you're done.

As a multi-tracking home recordist I sometimes would like to add drums or other instruments that I don't normally play, but my general rule is to stick with instruments that I play well. Stuff that we don't have a good handle on generally stick out like a sore thumb, so I avoid that.

Rudy, that sounds about like where I'm headed with this one. Thanks!

[b1j]

Originally Posted by nbs2005

Robin, that's a great tune and performance.

To the OP, yeah you figure out what you like best by trying a bunch of stuff that you finally call the recording. But you will never get it absolutely right as you'll play it slightly different one day and your mood will say 'wow, that was better'. And that's whats so fantastic.

Some of my favourite playing/singing is on my back porch after work where I run through songs I've done a bunch of times. But I often play them really different, stripped down with a simple rhythm that let's me play with the phrasing and vocal melody. Sometimes those version are the best.

Enjoy the journey.

Cheers,

Jeff

I couldn't agree more. One of the hesitations I've had is that a recording freezes exactly one way of playing each note. So in the end a recording is a different animal from playing on the porch, and it always will be. As long as I can accept that, I'll treat the recording as just one representation of some of the best ways to feel about each verse of the song. On the other hand, a recording is a version of the song with no mistakes!

[b1j]

Originally Posted by jpmist

Your comment "to be able to hold its own over repeated listenings" is the heart of your post. Kinda implies to me that you feel your own taste in how you want to hear your work is a few notches lower than what you think a professional producer would come up with. I've landed on my solution to simply make the song for my own ear.

Yes I suppose that's true, but you do what you can. I had a friend in college who played bass. The better he got, the clearer it became to him that he was never going to be as good as Paul McCartney. His response was to feel despair every time he picked up the instrument. It was sad. I've never forgotten that. Fortunately I'm not even in the same time zone as someone who considers whether they can be that good. The say satisfaction equals perception divided by expectations. I have no illusions about my middling talent. In fact, recording puts it all in stark, breathtaking relief. But you do what you can.

[b1j]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

A song needs both a lyrical hook and an instrumental hook. Most of us here are likely to be predominantly acoustic guitar players so there's no reason in the world that the instrumental hook couldn't be done on the guitar. For me, this instrumental hook sort of defines how the guitar part is going to be played. So once I have these two key components of that help to get me started on the song, the instrumentation just tends to fall into place.

Sometimes I am not finding what I consider a good instrumental hook and then I feel a little stymied. At that point I start looking for ideas from other people whose music I respect. What would Paul Simon or John Denver or Gordon Lightfoot or Jim Croce or ??? have done with this? Often that approach gives me ideas.

- Glenn

Insightful comment, Glenn. I'm hearing one distinctive hook in the scratch track. One task will be to decide how often to use it. Another will be to develop maybe a complementary hook from other elements that showed up on the track, and then tame them so they only come out when needed.

One challenge with this song is that there are ten parts.The structure is ABAC BABCCA. There's a short fragment of an introduction pulled from the C section. I haven't left any instrumental bridge to accommodate a hook, so my hooks will need to come when the vocal has a rest for a few beats or a couple of measures.

[b1j]

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

You know, it really varies with the song, dependent upon what you are trying to accomplish. I am hobbled by having developed during a period (the '70s) when guitar was the second voice in an ensemble. There was interchange between the vocalista and the guitarist and the guitars were used for development of the tension structure of the song. When I studied composition in college I was taught the business of expansion and contraction of the tension in a song to drag the listener along and develop interest. That is very important in the use of instruments.

Let me point you to an interesting use of acoustic guitar in a song.



Notice the use of fingerstyle in the intro, first verse, chorus, and second verse, then the switch to strumming for the second and third chorus with swells in between, and finally the return to fingerstyle for the outro as we get the anti-climax. This is an excellent use of technique to support the song.

Bob

Oh man, Bob, that took me back. Not to slight your song, but Jim Messina was a heck of a producer. The switch to strumming comes just when the mandolins take over the picking honors. The rhythmic interplay between the prominent downbeat and the flighty 16th-note picking drives the song forward like an engine. May I someday be good enough to conceive of something like this, and then have the chops to play it.

[b1j]

Well, I've met my goal for the week and sent the demo to the professional duo: one guitar and one vocal. No telling what they'll think of it; we'll see.

In any case, I am well pleased. I've successfully closed one chapter and am setting out on the next: honoring my little song with a tasteful structure and ornamentation and some appropriate texture to support the song's narrative. It will no doubt take months.

I hope I haven't worn out my welcome or bored you to tears with all these posts.

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by b1j

When I cover a song that I have heard recorded, I try to play the acoustic part kind of close to the way I heard it on the record. That’s true whether I’m just playing it for myself or trying to record it. Occasionally I still try to just play it in a new way without worrying about copying it, but I do like to start out being able to try to copy it. I hope that that will show me a little something about a good way to play.

But now I’m working on an original song, and I’m going back and forth trying to decide how to play the chords through the various verses and choruses. Do I finger pick? Do I strum? Do I pluck an entire chord? Where do the silences go? When I just play it for myself, there’s no problem. I just play what I feel like. But I’m trying to create a recorded version of it, and I would like that one to be able to hold its own over repeated listenings. The question is, what playing choices to make.

Eventually I expect I’ll arrange the song with bass, keys, drums, background vocals, and maybe another lead guitar. At that point, I expect i’ll pare down the acoustic part to simple chord strumming and let the other parts have their say.

I don't really understand this question unless you are seeking to copy a formula commonly used in country-pop or "Bro0country. in which the intros can sound good with a real guitar, then all the noise comes in.

I'm a singer and acoustic guitarist. I have made albums with vocals and acoustic and solos by dobro mandolin and another acoustic plus bass.

Although I was a drummer in the '60s and #'70s I'd certainly not want all the noise added.
The song is the thing.

[b1j]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

I don't really understand this question unless you are seeking to copy a formula commonly used in country-pop or "Bro0country. in which the intros can sound good with a real guitar, then all the noise comes in.

I'm a singer and acoustic guitarist. I have made albums with vocals and acoustic and solos by dobro mandolin and another acoustic plus bass.

Although I was a drummer in the '60s and #'70s I'd certainly not want all the noise added.
The song is the thing.

You mean like Greenday or something? I hope I don’t end up with noise or Bro-ware. I was thinking more along the lines of Nanci Griffith.

[Guitars44me]

Sometimes one real good acoustic guitar played simply, and a heartfelt vocal is all you need.

Check Daryl Scott out. Not that his playing is simple, that would be mine…. Haha

Depends on the song, I suppose

Cheers

Paul

[b1j]

Originally Posted by Guitars44me

Sometimes one real good acoustic guitar played simply, and a heartfelt vocal is all you need.

Check Daryl Scott out. Not that his playing is simple, that would be mine…. Haha

Depends on the song, I suppose

Cheers

Paul

Yes. Now that I’ve done it with a single guitar doing all the runs and fills between the foundation, it’s hard to imagine it with other instruments. The simplicity complements the story of the song. I’m going to let it sit for a while before I decide.