Who Makes Martins Better than Martin?

[crikey]

Originally Posted by Authentic

First you'll get the "nobody makes a better Martin than Martin" guys.

Then you got the "insert boutique $4,000 brands" guys.

Then you got the "insert name of obscure independent luthier whose guitars are the best I've ever played and he lives in my town and you should try his guitars" guys.

Then you got the "argue over the definition of what is a Martin" guys.

Then you got the "I will never buy another Martin again after insert random bad experience" guys.

Then you got the 11+ pages of arguing and the thread is closed for having veered too much off topic from original question.

Originally Posted by Fattymagoo

This reply was perfect, except that you forgot the "Blueridge/Recording King/Silver Creek guitars are just as good at a fraction of the price" crowd.

Then you got...

[lodi_55]

Originally Posted by mcduffnw

Absolutely NOT^^^

None of those fine guitars is better than a comparable level of quality Martin...and NONE of them sounds either a little...or alot...like the actual Martin "Martin" tone.

Really...if you want the Martin sound...the Martin tone...the Martin dynamic response...

Buy a Martin

end of story

duff

Oh boy.. Please end this thread now. If not before

[Truckjohn]

Most likely - you won't get a "better Martin than Martin" cheap. The best Martin in your price range is..... A genuine Martin.. Surprise surprise...

There are plenty of luthiers and low volume proudction shops like H&D that specialize in that particular sound... They make Fantastic guitars that are everything Martin dreams of but can't be because they make 100,000+ guitars a year.. But - these shops aren't going to be less expensive than a similar model from Martin...

Thanks

[stringjunky]

Originally Posted by mcduffnw

Absolutely NOT^^^

None of those fine guitars is better than a comparable level of quality Martin...and NONE of them sounds either a little...or alot...like the actual Martin "Martin" tone.

Really...if you want the Martin sound...the Martin tone...the Martin dynamic response...

Buy a Martin

end of story

duff

If you dimension wood to the same as a martin, it will sound within the range of a Martin. If you dimension wood to the same as a Klepper, or any of the luthiers here that have a particular sound it won't sound like them. The difference is that they treat pieces individually and work it until it is capable of their target sound. Apart from, maybe, their most expensive guitars, martin work to fixed dimensions, not taking account of the unique characteristics of any particular piece of wood and the resultant sound is within a given range on a bell curve; very few stellar ones, some very good, most good and some toneless. The density and stiffness are the variables that are the cause of the differences that they don't account for.

[Monsoon1]

Originally Posted by ewalling

That's a bit cynical for 23 posts, isn't it?

What are you going to be like when you've got a couple thousand on the clock?!

can't say for sure, but I suspect he'll be "Authentic".

[Silly Moustache]

In my opinion, and wothout trying out all the oneman/small factory makes I'd say :

1. Collings
2. Bourgeois
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 Santa Cruz

I'm sorry but Huss & Dalton don't come near.

[Zissou Intern]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

In my opinion, and wothout trying out all the oneman/small factory makes I'd say :

1. Collings
2. Bourgeois
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 Santa Cruz

I'm sorry but Huss & Dalton don't come near.

I'd also add to your list, though I am not sure in what order, Merrill and Blazer Henkes. And I have heard great things about Hooper but have yet to play one.

Not sure that I'd agree on the first and last builders you have listed. I owned the prototype of the H&D TDM, and it was shocking how much it sounded like my friend's '56 D18. And my old D1A, not to mention the few dozen I played while working in a shop, didn't exactly have the Martin tone like Bourgeois and SCGC, brands that we also stocked along with Martin.

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by Zissou Intern

I'd also add to your list, though I am not sure in what order, Merrill and Blazer Henkes. And I have heard great things about Hooper but have yet to play one.

Not sure that I'd agree on the first and last builders you have listed. I owned the prototype of the H&D TDM, and it was shocking how much it sounded like my friend's '56 D18. And my old D1A, not to mention the few dozen I played while working in a shop, didn't exactly have the Martin tone like Bourgeois and SCGC, brands that we also stocked along with Martin.

Hi, as I think I mentioned, I cannot speak about makes of which I have no experience.

I own Collings (x5) and Santa Cruz(x1) and still own one Martin (A D12-20) I owned a Bourgeois, possibly one of the finest instruments I ever played) and I have a friend with three Bourgeois dreads which are ....tremendous. Sadly Bourgeois necks don't suit me.

I've owned many Martins over the years - great, good and poor. (I used to buy poor when I didn't know better).

My experience of Huss & Dalton was a very expensive custom order which arrived un-playable, and remained so despite much work by the dealer. The customer service was non existent. A British luthier told me that it had too thin a top which was seriously underbraced.

The heartache, time, travel to/from the dealers, attempted repairs and referrals to other luthiers not to mention the financial loss (£2-3kish?) and total lack of help from H&D leaves a bitter scar.

I appreciate that some may have better experiences, but I would never consider touching one again.

[TheJackal]

Originally Posted by ahorsewithnonam

It's pretty simple really:

Only Taylor makes Taylors
Only Martin makes Martins
Only Santa Cruz makes Saints Cruses

Only Mercedes Benz makes a Mercedes Benz
Only John Deer makes a John Deer


Got it?

And John Deere makes really good John Deere tractors and farm implements, also. (along with a line of not so well made economy priced items that look much like the real thing.)

As to the question from the OP, start your search for a Martin in your budget range. You are likely to find one that does it for you. Failing that, look at other brands unless your goal is to find a different brand that sounds "better" than a Martin to your ears.

[antsdmb]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

Hi, as I think I mentioned, I cannot speak about makes of which I have no experience.

I own Collings (x5) and Santa Cruz(x1) and still own one Martin (A D12-20) I owned a Bourgeois, possibly one of the finest instruments I ever played) and I have a friend with three Bourgeois dreads which are ....tremendous. Sadly Bourgeois necks don't suit me.

I've owned many Martins over the years - great, good and poor. (I used to buy poor when I didn't know better).

My experience of Huss & Dalton was a very expensive custom order which arrived un-playable, and remained so despite much work by the dealer. The customer service was non existent. A British luthier told me that it had too thin a top which was seriously underbraced.

The heartache, time, travel to/from the dealers, attempted repairs and referrals to other luthiers not to mention the financial loss (£2-3kish?) and total lack of help from H&D leaves a bitter scar.

I appreciate that some may have better experiences, but I would never consider touching one again.

Well...since this has been brought up AGAIN (probably at least 100 times on this forum alone) I will speak up and say that my two huss and daltons are the finest guitars my money has been spent on. They're a class act all the way and I'd buy another if I had the money. I think there are two sides to every story and we're only hearing one of them.

[fishstick_kitty]

If you're looking for that Martin pre-war sound in a dread, then I would look at a Santa Cruz D/PW...it is inspired by old pre-war martins and the tone will be more consistent from guitar to guitar, which is easier for a small shop but harder for a factory assembly line.

[Side Man]

This ought to do it:

http://doney.net/aroundaz/celebrity/DA_esteban.jpg

[llew]

Next week I should have a Pre-War Guitar Co. D(18) to try. If it's all that Wes and Ben say it is I'll let you know. Based on Martin dreads from the 1934-1941 period. If not, back it will go?

[rwmct]

Originally Posted by lodi_55

Oh boy.. Please end this thread now. If not before

I strongly disagree. The fact that some people don't like the concept expressed in the OP's question, or the precise way he worded it, should not result in the thread being derailed and closed. Everybody knows what he meant. There are guitars that are modeled more or less closely upon Martins. It is a perfectly legitimate subject of discussion, one which many people on here have the experience to give answers to, given that so many are familiar with the alternative makers.

I doubt I am the only one interested in reading the thoughts of experienced guitar fans on the different brands that are modeled after the Martin sound.

If we are going to close threads like this because so many people jump in to challenge the question itself, we will be in fetters, precluded from tapping the experience and views of the members on every subject that will irritate somebody.

[BFD]

Let's see . . . . you've got a Taylor and a Gibson . . I predict you'll get a Martin.

Overtures otherwise notwithstanding