Favorite Flamenco Artist?

[BuleriaChk]

Faith-based Flamenco compositions? What roots? Which palo?
Like saying "Blue Rondo a la Turk" has its roots in Blues....

Originally Posted by crabolsky

I believe that piece does actually have its roots in Flamenco, but true that it probably wasn't in keeping with the flavor of the other posts. That was one that I discovered recently and loved.

(I am not critiquing the composition or the performance; I'm delighted that you like it. I just would argue emphatically that it is not Flamenco at all...
- but maybe I ought to listen to again... but then, if it is Flamenco, I shouldn't have to....)

There is no question, BTW, about whether "Fuente y Caudal" is Flamenco. It definitely is, and rooted in PdL's deep Flamenco experience. The first Fandangos de Huelva falseta is even in compas.... (other Flamenco guitarists will understand..

[crabolsky]

I am definitely not going to profess that I am a Flamenco player or understand the subtle nuances. I guess what I was saying that Grisha IS a flamenco guitarist who I admire.

Iam not sure I understand what you mean by "faith based" compositions?
Clearly you study flamenco and understand it's derivatives so am not going to pretend to understand your breakdown on its origins.

At any rate. I enjoyed all of the clips you posted especially Paco Cepero.

[BuleriaChk]

I guess I was a little snarky by "faith-based" applying to your belief that the piece had its roots in Flamenco. Grisha is an excellent guitarist who (from what I have seen so far) plays Flamenco compositions. He may eventually develop his own material (certainly PdL up to "Almoraima" is not a bad influence, at least in the albums I mention, IMO...)

But the main point is to retain a perspective about the art - it has deep, DEEP roots, with many, many excellent players in Spain rooted in the tradition, both currently and historically - I can't even begin to list them all, but the Internet is now replete with good Flamenco, mediocre Flamenco, bad Flamenco, psuedo Flamenco (and I would HATE to discover where I fit in.....

But the Flamenco forums usually provide excellent information and perspective, even at the risk of getting involved in flame wars.. But even in those battles, you can learn the names of the artists experienced participants mention, and through YouTube, you can see for yourself (I'm a battle-scarred veteran of the very first mailing lists before YouTube became available...)

[crabolsky]

Originally Posted by BuleriaChk

But the main point is to retain a perspective about the art - it has deep, DEEP roots, with many, many excellent players in Spain rooted in the tradition, both currently and historically

I guess I was looking at it from a broader spectrum but I do appreciate your explanation and where you're coming from. I am someone who played a variety of styles and guitars over the years, but I have centered my focus on nylon stringed/classical for a while. I have sold all of my electric and steel string guitars because I just stopped playing them. There is an inherent resonance, mystery and beauty in these guitars that these guitars that keeps me awestruck. This is where my appreciation flamenco is born from. Any guitarists that is able to make their instrument sing is enough for me!

Iam truly interested in understanding flamenco better though and I plan on purchasing a flamenco guitar in the future.

[Gostwriter]

Where do artists such as Rodrigo y Gabriel and the Gipsy Kings fall? Do you consider them Flamenco, Latin, or something else?

[BuleriaChk]

I dunno about Rodrigo and Gabriel (I stopped listening to "modern" Flamenco in 1975).
The Gypsy Kings are borderline; on occasion they play recognizable Flamenco (EVERYBODY plays Rumba....

Manitas de Plata tries hard, and has a great Flamenco face. He uses 3 finger picado for speed, but can't control it musically, so has a lot of trouble with compas and Flamenco phrasing. I doubt he could accompany dancers in the studios on the calle Amor de Dios in Madrid...

Originally Posted by Gostwriter

Where do artists such as Rodrigo y Gabriel and the Gipsy Kings fall? Do you consider them Flamenco, Latin, or something else?

[papajoo]

I gotta give some love to Juan Serrano- one of the greats
also just a mention to check out one of Juan Serranos student´s and my own teacher for some time Juan (Shane) Gonzalez (i think spelling is correct) of Kelipe guitar in Malaga, España. Great person and unbelievable guitarist.
finally, Chicuelo also should get some mention

[BuleriaChk]

Diego Clavel (cantaor) will rip your heart out por Siguiriyas....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vccKgsQt4bQ

Melchor de Marchena is considered one of the greatest accompanists of his era..

================================
I found this while I was looking on YouTube to see if I could find the version from the Rito y Geografia del Cante with Diego Clavel accompanied by Manolo Brenes.... If it ever comes up, it is the most profound interpretation I have ever experienced......

But this gives an idea - if you can ignore the credits at the end.....

[marcodemeijer]

definitely Paco Pena, the most humble man I ve ever met

[Red_Label]

Originally Posted by BuleriaChk

Can of Worms Alert!!!

(Before anyone is qualified to answer, they must be able to (at least) perform counter-palmas at 126 bpm in phrased compas to Bulerias..

The internet is SO lucky to have you on answer-patrol Chuck.

[Red_Label]

Originally Posted by papajoo

I gotta give some love to Juan Serrano- one of the greats
also just a mention to check out one of Juan Serranos student´s and my own teacher for some time Juan (Shane) Gonzalez (i think spelling is correct) of Kelipe guitar in Malaga, España. Great person and unbelievable guitarist.
finally, Chicuelo also should get some mention

Juan (Serrano) is definitely one of my favorites as well. He and Sabicas will always be my favorite flamenco puros.

[BuleriaChk]

IMNSHO - (digging into the can of worms)..... and my first possible Flamenco flame war on this form........

Juan Serrano can play flamenco well, but his roots do not seem "Gitano" to me; he seems "American/classical" (judging from a Flamenco perspective of the 1970's, admittedly), as opposed, say, to Juan Maya "Marote" (e.g., when he accompanies La Fernanda and La Bernarda de Utrera). In terms of compas, I find Juan Serrano boring, with little hint of the complex twists and turns of compas so important to Gitanos I knew in Spain. (Mario Escudero is more Flamenco than Juan Serrano in this respect). For a "classical" sounding Paco de Lucia, compare his Bulerias on "Fantasia Flamenca" with that on "El Duende de Paco de Lucia" (strongly influenced, I suspect, by Paco del Gastor, who was playing second guitar to him accompanying Bambino around that period as I remember - I think before he met Camaron de la Isla.) ("Fantasia" seems influenced by Mario Escudero - I believe PdL "studied" with him for some time)..

I agree that Paco Pena is an excellent guitarist, well grounded in the solo Flamenco guitar tradition (many of his records are directly derivative of the Flamencos that went before him or were contemporary. That is, he plays falsetas well from everyone - Nino Ricardo, Don Ramon Montoya, Sabicas).

Sabicas, along with Paco de Lucia, are in classes of their own. I think Sabicas is a master composer in many ways (certainly much of his material came from Don Ramon Montoya - he shows almost no influence from anyone else that I can tell except foreign influences from his extended periods outside Spain)...

For Sabicas, listen to "Flamenco Puro" or "Sabicas" (albums 1 and 3) or "Queen of the Gypsies" with Carmen Amaya.....

("Those who think they know it all are really irritating to those of us who actually do..."

[BuleriaChk]

I must leave this thread. I MUST LEAVE THIS THREAD.
Best to leave critiques to those more qualified than I (Brook Zern, the late Donn Pohren "Art of Flamenco", "Lives and Legends of Flamenco")....

Well, ok I do like to discuss Flamenco, but at least with some historical and technical perspective, rather than just stating personal preferences (which are always valid from a personal perspective, but may not be consistent with those of experienced Flamencos)

[Pedro Navaja]

C'mon Chuck. Admit it. You really are a Benise fan

[BuleriaChk]

Well, I have a dancer acquaintance who worked in a few of his shows - but then I live in Santa Barbara ....

Originally Posted by Pedro Navaja

C'mon Chuck. Admit it. You really are a Benise fan