NGD: X30 arrived

[jonfields45]

Has the OP resolved the overtone problem?

[L3stat]

Not yet, but Alistair has weighed in with some ideas for me to try. I think a setup will be a good first step, which will eliminate some variables. Unfortunately that's only possible next week earliest. I'm going to try this weekend to see if I can troubleshoot it further per Alistair's suggestions. He was understanding and told me not to worry about the return window.

In case you're curious he thinks it's something loose rattling that causes the overtones. I've looked inside the guitar and realised the K&K pure mini cable has dropped out of the hook (which is installed correctly on the back side of the guitar). But it isn't touching any of the sides, just suspended in the air, so not sure if that's the source. It looks like a bit of a reach, but maybe I'll try to reposition it with my bare hands this weekend.

I asked if it could be due to a resonance issue (like dead notes) but he hasn't replied yet.

[Tøf]

While great strummed, I found my X30 to have a very «hollow» resonance around 150 Hz (D and D# affected), very annoying for finger picking.
It was clearly a resonance/interference issue as I had the same problem when I was playing the same notes on the 5th string.

I sent it back to Emerald, they adknowledged the issue, adjusted the set-up and changed the saddle and sent it back to me stating it was fixed.
It wasn’t, so I concluded that it’s how the X30 sounds and it’s probably my ears

End of the story, I traded the guitar.

[L3stat]

Originally Posted by Tøf

While great strummed, I found my X30 to have a very «hollow» resonance around 150 Hz (D and D# affected), very annoying for finger picking.
It was clearly a resonance/interference issue as I had the same problem when I was playing the same notes on the 5th string.

I sent it back to Emerald, they adknowledged the issue, adjusted the set-up and changed the saddle and sent it back to me stating it was fixed.
It wasn’t, so I concluded that it’s how the X30 sounds and it’s probably my ears

End of the story, I traded the guitar.

That's a shame. I remember your guitar had the nice slotted headstock. I guess your problem is more serious than mine, in that other positions were affected too. Mine's only affected for that specific open B position in standard tuning (and I'm tempted to add .016 gauge string). Did yours sound like the note was choked and it wouldn't sustain or had a lower volume?

[Tøf]

The note had a sort of «bump», a weird resonance at the very beginning. There was still skme sustain but a sort of notch sound wise... for lack of a better word
Not sure it would have been a major issue for others, we all have our criteria!

If you only have the problem with the open B it’s probably a set-up, nut slot or another hardware issue easier to fix than a resonance of the guitar itself.

[dwalton]

Yep - when I’ve had noticeable resonant issues in the past, the same note or two played everywhere sounded thuddy and dull. If it’s just the open B, maybe something around the nut or headstock, maybe something else.

[L3stat]

Hi all, just to post an update on the matter. The setup was done, which eliminates a lot of potential causes (bad nut slots, poorly fitted saddle, cables vibrating vs sides etc). The overtone was still there. Also, maybe something during the setup changed the guitar, I now hear it on the high B (7th on E) as well, and worse.

I also took Alistair's advice, systematically touching various parts of the guitar to damp any vibrating or loose parts and see if it helps (saddle, bridge pins, tuners, washers on tuners, tuner shafts, knobs, string between nut and tuner etc). His hypothesis was given how resonant these guitars are, something loose could be vibrating. Didn't help. Not to blame since it's really hard to diagnose an issue a few thousand miles away and relying on someone else's description/ears.

So I've decided to return the guitar for a refund, and I'm just back from the post office.

One question though, or actually a few, is that I have the option of opting for another build or another guitar in stock, as opposed to a full refund. I know it's a luck of the draw of thing, and no one can guarantee this won't happen again. Suppose it does, is it the fault of the manufacturer or is the customer supposed to eat it? I don't have that much experience with custom ordered acoustics, curious where the risk/responsibility lies? Emerald has a no questions asked return policy, and for that I'm grateful. But there should be some ethical limit to doing this (i.e. returning "duds" until you're satisfied). And also there are limitations, like I can't order a highly customized guitar and return it (like an X20 with 22 frets).

Also, this return is not costless to me. Between import duties (where I am there are no tax treaties with Ireland), luthier costs for setup and bridge slotting (to fix the incomplete job), and shipping back to Emerald, I'm out more than $600. Also there's the entire experience of running around trying to sort out the guitar etc. Not entirely sure I want to repeat that.

What would you do?

[mountainmaster]

I still believe this is a common B-string issue, but since it bothers you so much you should probably return the guitar.
Did you do the setup yourself? If not, I am curious to hear what the luthier who did the setup had to say about it.

The problem is... now that you are aware of this issue you may notice it in other guitars as well, which could make it harder to find the one that is right for you.

About the different(?) matter of resonance which Tøf mentions, I noticed this as well in my X30. I have my guitar tuned in D-G-C-F-A-D and that way the resonance seems to work in its favor. I tried tuning down another whole step when it still had those heavy 14-59 strings and while the tension was more than adequate it sounded dead to me.

The X30 definitely has a character of its own which is not for everyone. I have never played an X20 but I guess that would be the guitar of choice for those looking for a more neutral and even sound.
So maybe go for an X20 replacement?

[L3stat]

I do my own electric setups mostly, since there are usually mechanical bits and bobs that facilitate that. Acoustics are more involved so I don’t. Either way if there’s a mechanical problem like a badly cut nut slot I don’t have the tools or skills to fix it myself. During the diagnosis the luthier did mention the B slot could have been cut better. I don’t know how to tell.

It’s actually the first time I’ve noticed it in an acoustic guitar. My Martin doesn’t exhibit this, nor the CA GX I have on loan. But I take your point. Which means I would have to try my guitars in person.

Apart from this issue, I think the X30 is a brilliant guitar which sounds great. Pity I didn’t get one that I could bond with (and it looks like I won’t ever). The X20 idea was a bit of what-if thinking aloud, assuming all X30s exhibit this (which I don’t know for sure). I haven’t tried an X20 to know it’s for me, I would still go for the X30.

[rjathon]

Why wouldn’t a problem like that be caught by Emerald before the guitar shipped?

[KarenB]

Originally Posted by rjathon

Why wouldn’t a problem like that be caught by Emerald before the guitar shipped?

I was wondering that myself.

L3Stat,Sorry you had to go through all this.

It's nice that the guitar can be returned. As suggested, a 20 might be a good option.