Froggy Bottom Questions

[asobi]

Curiosity leading to a deranged evening brainstorm session, asking for a friend Let's say he has a custom OM in Braz RW in the works as well as an L-00 type in Mahogany, both due for delivery well in the future (2023 or 2024). To occupy the next few years, he just bought a Collings Small Jumbo in Koa, which fills out out the stable as a larger-sized guitar.

He's now beginning to think about mixing in a smaller guitar with the SJ in his daily guitar diet until his custom OM and L-00 arrive in 2023. Given what he has in the hopper with a luthier, he'd likely either investigate a guitar sized between 00 and OM, or potentially smaller than 00.

He began investigating Froggy Bottom guitars and had these questions:

1. H12 vs. H14 besides the obvious difference in # of frets?
2. Anyone try the new R12/R14? Looks like FB version of Nick Lucas... How do they compare vs. A12?
3. P12 - come on, it's really too small, right?

Any thoughts? #askingforafriend

[Mycroft]

I bought a Froggy A12 an an "interim guitar" while my custom McAlister was built, on a 3+ year wait list. I still have the Froggy 21+ years later. (I still have the Mac as well)

The A12 is a 25" scale deep-sided 00 sized guitar, much like a Nick Lucas. Awesome for blues and ragtime.

H14 has a longer scale than an H12, 25.4" vs 25."

The R has a shorter scale than the A12, 24.75" vs 25." Body's are a little bit different.

I've played P's, which are great, but they knock on the door of that bit of nasal honk that Parlors seem to have. Gimme a 00-size.

OMMV

[BrunoBlack]

There’s a nice Froggy C being sold by AGF sponsor right here.
https://www.guitargal.com/collection...ahogany-guitar

The C is a great 00 with a big sound. The one offered by Guitar Gallery has a 1-13/16 nut, which may or may not work for you. But the model is a great option. Listen to the audio and video presentations provided on the GG listing.

[asobi]

Paul, I've seen your great posts on FB guitars. I recall you preferring H12 over H14. Was it the tonal difference? And I wonder what tonewood you preferred.

That C is a beauty but the nut width gives me pause, as I never tried 1 13/16. For an FB novice like me, the more urgent question is, isn't the C / A12 / R12-14 kind of cannibalizing themselves? What are meaningful differences among those models? Probably a long winded way of asking why you recommended the C over R or A. Thanks!

Originally Posted by Haasome

There’s a nice Froggy C being sold by AGF sponsor right here.
https://www.guitargal.com/collection...ahogany-guitar

The C is a great 00 with a big sound. The one offered by Guitar Gallery has a 1-13/16 nut, which may or may not work for you. But the model is a great option. Listen to the audio and video presentations provided on the GG listing.

[Mocha Joe]

H12 would be my choice.

[asobi]

Originally Posted by Mocha Joe

H12 would be my choice.

Thanks, Joe. Did you also try the H14 to compare? Curious why you sent with 12

[BrunoBlack]

Originally Posted by latestyle

Paul, I've seen your great posts on FB guitars. I recall you preferring H12 over H14. Was it the tonal difference? And I wonder what tonewood you preferred.

That C is a beauty but the nut width gives me pause, as I never tried 1 13/16. For an FB novice like me, the more urgent question is, isn't the C / A12 / R12-14 kind of cannibalizing themselves? What are meaningful differences among those models? Probably a long winded way of asking why you recommended the C over R or A. Thanks!

The H-12 is killer, and unless you are looking for a smaller body, it would be very high on the list. If you want a 00, then look at the others. I’ve played a lot of Froggy guitars, but I’ve never played an A or R model, so I can’t compare. I’ve owned an H-12 and currently own a C, and I’ve played a bunch of H-14 models. I find the H-12 has a bigger, deeper more resonant sound than the H-14. And it’s a dream to fingerpick. if a 12 fret 000 size guitar is what you are looking for, take a good look at the H-12. It’s the one of the very best out there imo.

[asobi]

Originally Posted by Haasome

The H-12 is killer, and unless you are looking for a smaller body, it would be very high on the list. If you want a 00, then look at the others. I’ve played a lot of Froggy guitars, but I’ve never played an A or R model, so I can’t compare. I’ve owned an H-12 and currently own a C, and I’ve played a bunch of H-14 models. I find the H-12 has a bigger, deeper more resonant sound than the H-14. And it’s a dream to fingerpick. if a 12 fret 000 size guitar is what you are looking for, take a good look at the H-12. It’s the one of the very best out there imo.

Did you try different tonewood combos for the H12? Curious. Given how you describe it, seems more complementary for rosewood or mahogany than, say, maple.

[FormerFoodie]

Big time Froggy fan here... and it looks like you've already received a bunch of sage advice.

I have a P12 and an H12.

Between an H12 and an H14, I would lean towards the H12 but in full disclosure, I've never had an opportunity to play an H14. I think the H12 is the closest thing they have to a 'flagship' guitar.

My P12 is AMAZING. But if I had to choose between the both of them, I still may go with the H12 because it just sounds fuller. Michael Millard coaxes every ounce of tone out of P12 body, but it's still an 0-sized guitar. You can only push the laws of physics so much. That being said, I was searching for my grail couch guitar, and the P12 is it.

I've never played an R12 nor an A12. I suspect they are all sprinkled with the same pixie dust that leads to magical guitars.

Good luck in the hunt! I always enjoy spreading the gospel of Froggy Bottom!

[asobi]

Originally Posted by FormerFoodie

Big time Froggy fan here... and it looks like you've already received a bunch of sage advice.

I have a P12 and an H12.

Between an H12 and an H14, I would lean towards the H12 but in full disclosure, I've never had an opportunity to play an H14. I think the H12 is the closest thing they have to a 'flagship' guitar.

My P12 is AMAZING. But if I had to choose between the both of them, I still may go with the H12 because it just sounds fuller. Michael Millard coaxes every ounce of tone out of P12 body, but it's still an 0-sized guitar. You can only push the laws of physics so much. That being said, I was searching for my grail couch guitar, and the P12 is it.

Thanks, FormerFoodie! Did you try different tonewoods before deciding on your P12 and H12 (and what combo did you settle on)?

[FormerFoodie]

Originally Posted by latestyle

Thanks, FormerFoodie! Did you try different tonewoods before deciding on your P12 and H12 (and what combo did you settle on)?

Both of my Frogs are Adi/Braz. I used to own an H12 in Adi/Hog. (BTW, Brazilian Rosewood and Mahoghany are Michael Millard's two favorite tonewoods.) As much as I loved the Hog backed Frog, I was missing the overtones in the end and ultimately waited for the right Braz backed Frog to come my way.

I do like overtones, but over the years have become very sensitive to them. There is a Goldilocks zone for overtones. Too little, there's not enough magic. Too much, and it sounds...muddy (there are some other good adjectives here, I'm just drawing a blank!). But rosewood Frogs tend to hit the right mark with overtones. One of the most common adjectives I read when people are talking about Frogs are the magical, three dimensional shimmer they seem to possess. Yeah, that's the Goldilocks zone...

[SprintBob]

I'll second the comments of FormerFoodie and Haasome above but the OP needs to keep in mind that every new Froggy is built to what Michael Millard and his team believe will fit the playing requirements of the purchaser so there is a relatively lengthy conversation between FB and that individual before a guitar is built. That determines the final selection of body size and tonewoods.

I bought my H-12 used but it was in mint condition. It's Adi/EIR and as much as I hear about how great BRW is, I'm not sure how much better it can be than what I got with this guitar. The sustain, reverb, clarity, low end (without a hint of being boomy), and responsiveness are amazing.

[BrunoBlack]

Originally Posted by latestyle

Did you try different tonewood combos for the H12? Curious. Given how you describe it, seems more complementary for rosewood or mahogany than, say, maple.

Yes I did. The H-12 I owned was Adi/Walnut and it jumped into my car after playing it in the showroom. I’ve played H-12 versions of EIR, Mahogany, Brazilian and Koa too. I have had the opportunity to play quite a few Froggy guitars over the years and it lead to 3 commissions Adi/walnut K, Adi/mahogany C and Adi/EIR M. I find M has the most overtones and sustain, and the C the least — but the C still has all the overtones and sustain I ever want (in that model). The Adi/Walnut K sits in the center from a tonal perspective. The Adi/EIR is beautiful, but needs to be played accordingly. I thoroughly enjoy each and every one. Experiment.

[asobi]

Originally Posted by SprintBob

...every new Froggy is built to what Michael Millard and his team believe will fit the playing requirements of the purchaser so there is a relatively lengthy conversation between FB and that individual before a guitar is built. That determines the final selection of body size and tonewoods.

Thanks for your comments, Bob. I must imagine the lead time for getting a guitar built is pretty long? One of the reasons I was investigating FB (and others) is I'd like a smaller guitar to play with to counterbalance my Collings SJ until my custom guitars arrive in 2023. For instant gratification =)

[asobi]

Originally Posted by FormerFoodie

As much as I loved the Hog backed Frog, I was missing the overtones in the end and ultimately waited for the right Braz backed Frog to come my way... rosewood Frogs tend to hit the right mark with overtones.

Originally Posted by Haasome

I’ve played H-12 versions of EIR, Mahogany, Brazilian and Koa too... and it lead to 3 commissions Adi/walnut K, Adi/mahogany C and Adi/EIR M. I find M has the most overtones and sustain, and the C the least

Seems from both Former Foodie and Haasome's comments, FB guitars in rosewood has the most overtone content (vs. hog and other tonewoods). Thanks, both!