Water heaters? Go electric or tankless? Anyone experience both? A few questions...

[Gcunplugged]

Here’s a good 6-7 minute video I found recently on the topic

https://youtu.be/vRUgFmBaSCM

GC

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by rokdog49

Something is wrong. That should not be the case.

Thats what I thought also,, guess Ill have to haul out the volt meter and see if all three elements are getting 220

[Earl49]

We have the same 60 gallon gas water heater in our house as when we moved in 12½ years ago, so I expect it to die at any time. [So far, so good]. I too wondered about tankless on-demand heaters. There was an article in the ASHRAE Journal last year, but I cannot find a public link, just a paid member-only portal. As I recall it was exactly as rokdog describes it. Higher initial cost for minimal annual savings. The payback period is even longer for natural gas versus electric water heating, and we are already plumbed for gas. So I have decided to use an in-kind replacement gas-fired tank heater when that time comes.

Originally Posted by rokdog49

A tankless system, if you are able to have one installed, will cost you $2500 or more...way more, especially in a retro fit scenario. The venting can be an issue.
The U.S. Department of Energy estimates savings of anywhere between $25-$100 a year on your electric bill, not much of an incentive.
You can buy a good electric water heater for around $800-1000 installed and they are much more efficient these days.
When we built our home, I worked in the industry. I could have gone tankless, but chose not to. The payback was too long and they don’t last forever either.

[buddyhu]

We went with a gas fired tankless heater about 10 years ago. We have a button in the bathroom that is furthest from the heater that activates a circulating Pump, and moves the water in the pipes so that it comes out hot once the circulation is complete: cheaper than adding an auxiliary heater).

The tankless heaters have a limiter so you can’t get the water hotter than 120 degrees...which is a what safety experts recommend As the being the highest setting for any water heater (though many run their tank water heaters hotter than 120): much hotter than 120 and the hot water can scald you). You can get your installer to defeat this limiter on a tankless heater, but it voids the warranty.

We bought the tankless heater when this was our second home, and didn’t like the expense and energy waste of heating Water when we were not here. Also, I liked the idea of buying a heater where most components are recyclable, whereas most of the components of a tank water heater go into the landfills.

I like our tankless heater a lot. I have gotten used to being planful about hot water use: do laundry, dishes, and take showers at about the same time, and you minimize heat loss as the water flows through the pipes, making the water as hot as it will be with such a set up. We rarely ran out of hot water, so that is not a big part of the picture for me/us.

If one of us takes a bath, we just use 100% hot water, and it is as hot as I would really want a bath to be, even in the winter when we may not get above 20 degrees some days (anything hotter and I need to enter gradually). Same with washing dishes by hand: 100% hot is as hot as my hands can take.

The unit is very small: bolted onto the concrete basement wall, vented directly outside.

The manufacturer recommends flushing the system with vinegar one a year to prevent excessive build up of mineral deposits (which would limit flow and interfere with heating; same principle as flushing a drip coffee maker With vinegar). This representEd more maintenance fo me: while one should be draining a tank water heater to avoid mineral build up, I never did.

Give tankless heaters a close look...they deserve it, and you might decide they are what will be best for you.

[rokdog49]

Things may have changed since I retired from the industry a few years ago, but you do have to keep them clean. I never sold them, but a few of our independent reps did.
The consensus back then was “the jury is still out”.
The upfront investment is still pretty heavy if you go whole house.

[Gordon Currie]

We went tankless (gas) in 2006 as part of a big basement remodel/finishing.

We were able to reclaim a ton of room as our furnace and water heaters no longer needed to vent through the roof due to using newer high efficiency units.

The box hangs off the side of our house. We had to battle a bit with city zoning to locate it in its position.

As far as maintenance, there is not much. Going strong for 14 years and it looks like I can easily get another decade.

The only downside is a short wait if you are the first person requesting hot water for that day. There are systems to deal with this, but we decided it was not worth it.

I would never go back to a big water tank. I lived through 3 complete tank failures in my life.

[RedJoker]

We switched from an electric tank to a gas tankless last year. I much prefer the tankless. It was more expensive to install but it is so nice to wash dishes, my wife to run a bath, and me not get stuck with a cold shower.

[llew]

I had two electric water heaters. A 60 gallon in my basement (which I still have) that supplies hot water to almost all of my house including the kitchen sink. When we remodeled our master bed/bath we installer a natural gas Rinnia tankless heater. My electric billed dropped but my gas bill only increases minimally. The only gas appliances we have are a set of fire logs and the Rinnia. In the summer my gas bill is the minimum plus maybe $3-$5 more with the Rinnia doing the lion's share of hot water for master bath, outdoor shower, washer, utility sink, and wet bar. There is an expensive outlay at installation however. I believe it was around $2500 installed.

[joe white]

We moved into our current home in March of 2019. The home was built and completed in the fall of 2015 and there are a few things that are new to us, one being a natural gas, whole house tankless water heater. I have no complaints. It gets the water hotter than anyone could stand to shower with and it's very quiet. I have showered while the clothes washer and dishwasher were both running at the same time but I can't recall ever having two showers going at once, it's just my wife and I here. I have done nothing to it since moving in but we do have a high quality water softener in use. Our old home was built in late 99 and the water heater gave up in 2011. The sound of the power vented gas water heater at the old house was annoying since it was directly below the master bedroom so I had it on a digital timer that kept it from running from 11PM to 7AM. That worked out quite well for us. That was a big house, 3800 square feet with 3 full bathrooms and two half bathrooms and the system was on a loop that I could open or close at will. We would open it for holidays or whenever we had company and the hot water was almost immediately at the taps. That is the one drawback to the tankless in the new house. It takes quite a bit for the hot water to arrive. I am installing small 1.5 gallon electric hot water heaters under the kitchen sink and in our master bedroom sinks as well to counter that.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by rokdog49

Something is wrong. That should not be the case.

You are correct. I found out that this older Heater does not want to see a flow rate over 3.5 to 4 GPM (helps to read the all of the manual ) and my well pump is putting out 18-20. So simply reducing the flow with with the shot off valve did the trick and we are getting hot water now. I will see if my plumber has some inline gage valve to dial it in exact

[rokdog49]

Originally Posted by KevWind

You are correct. I found out that this older Heater does not want to see a flow rate over 3.5 to 4 GPM (helps to read the all of the manual ) and my well pump is putting out 18-20. So simply reducing the flow with with the shot off valve did the trick and we are getting hot water now. I will see if my plumber has some inline gage valve to dial it in exact

Great!
Glad you got it figured out.
I remember that issue now that you mention it.
You (the plumber) should be able to install a mechanical flow restriction device. They are common.

[ericcsong]

Thanks for all the replies. We are going tankless tomorrow. Going with rinnai rur160in. Very excited!

Anyone with rinnai have their control r to automate it or wireless motion or button? I've hear mixed things on the control r.

[rokdog49]

Originally Posted by ericcsong

Thanks for all the replies. We are going tankless tomorrow. Going with rinnai rur160in. Very excited!

Anyone with rinnai have their control r to automate it or wireless motion or button? I've hear mixed things on the control r.

Rinnai makes a very good product, good choice!

[lgherb]

I had a gas tankless water heater installed when my electric water heater died. I highly recommend it if your water heater needs to be replaced.

Having said that, don't expect as much in "energy savings" as might be touted.

This isn't because there is exaggeration in how efficient these units are...this is because of human nature. What we found in our household is that because our tankless water heater doesn't "run out" of hot water, everyone in the house tends to take longer showers.

With a finite supply of hot water in a traditional water heater, there was a use point where the old water heater could not heat water fast enough and at some point in time it was time to end the shower. With the "on demand" nature of tankless systems, you never run out of hot water.

[ericcsong]

Do in have to worry about multiple showers at a time or flow of hot water?