COVID-19 (Cont'd #6)

[Nyghthawk]

During the 2018-19 flu season, about 35 million people in the US contracted the flu and about 34,000 died, according to the CDC.

Where the 79,000 number came from is beyond me. These numbers are from the CDC website.

[flagstaffcharli]

I’m going to carefully wade back into these waters. My spouse is a doctor. She is convinced an undercount is likely. This is based simply on her experience at her job and what she has learned watching how this has played out. For me to repeat it here is just an anecdote or an appeal to her authority. Having some evidence to back up an argument is better.

It is a complicated issue. Certain causes of death have actually dropped during the pandemic due to reduced traffic, activity, crime, etc.., But anecdotally, there has also been unnecessary mortality simply due to people being afraid to visit the doctor or ER. So the statistics get a little cloudy even when you assume everyone is doing their absolute best.

But statistically, the CDC is pointing to elevated deaths in New York City and a still-unexplained number in excess of both normal numbers and the COVID reported totals. I don’t think it is at all unreasonable to suspect that this is evidence of a undercount. It’s a significant number (22%) of deaths in excess of the seasonal norm. And it is simply data, uncolored by the various prejudices and suspicions people have of various agencies and institutions.

Of course, these numbers are just for New York. And I suppose someone could argue that New York is undercounting while everyone else is over-counting. Fine. But they should be able to cite some hard evidence beyond an anecdote or two.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6919e5.htm

Text from the CDC: “ During March 11–May 2, 2020, a total of 32,107 deaths were reported to DOHMH; of these deaths, 24,172 (95% confidence interval = 22,980–25,364) were found to be in excess of the seasonal expected baseline. Included in the 24,172 deaths were 13,831 (57%) laboratory-confirmed COVID-19–associated deaths and 5,048 (21%) probable COVID-19–associated deaths, leaving 5,293 (22%) excess deaths that were not identified as either laboratory-confirmed or probable COVID-19–associated deaths”

[flagstaffcharli]

Originally Posted by robj144

You can't agree with the data to the link I posted? Again, it's not looking at who died from what... it's looking at total deaths.

And I see my previous post is probably redundant, and my main point had already been made. There needs to be a meaningful explanation for all these deaths in excess of the norm before any accusations of over-counting are going to seem reasonable to me.

But it’s probably time for me to go crawl back under my rock. I’m just repeating a point someone else made more eloquently.

[rmp]

Originally Posted by Nyghthawk

During the 2018-19 flu season, about 35 million people in the US contracted the flu and about 34,000 died, according to the CDC.

Where the 79,000 number came from is beyond me. These numbers are from the CDC website.

I posted that, I'll have to check, the #'s may not have been US only which would make a big difference.

[buddyhu]

Originally Posted by Murphy Slaw

This is why you're seeing people in pools, beaches, rivers and such. The fear is gone. And a mass rejection of masks.Fauci said they don't help. Now they've become a "symbol".

NOT wearing them has now become a symbol as well.

The fear is gone. The media hates to let go of this cash/ratings cow, but people have lost interest.

We have stuff to do.

ON MARCH 8, Fauci said there was “no reason to be walking around wearing a mask,” as they didn’t offer as much protection as people believed. Since then, research has shown that masks are quite effective in protecting the people who come in contact with the mask wearer, and Fauci and the CDC have been explicitly and repeatedly saying so for nearly two months.

It appears that you have been duped by a YouTube video that uses a clickbait title, and which presents a portion of an interview out of context, and implying the comment is recent.

If you think this is just about the media spreading fear, go to a site where they are testing for coronavirus and observe the gear that the medical professionals are wearing. Or try to just walk into a hospital as if you wanted to visit someone, and see what happens.

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by Murphy Slaw

This is why you're seeing people in pools, beaches, rivers and such. The fear is gone. And a mass rejection of masks. Fauci said they don't help. Now they've become a "symbol".

NOT wearing them has now become a symbol as well.

The fear is gone. The media hates to let go of this cash/ratings cow, but people have lost interest.

We have stuff to do.

I believe you might be taking a parochial view here or might be misguided.

The fear is gone for some but problem isn't gone. As a large employer in urban and not urban areas we still have absences from this. Our health care providers have issues and so do our suppliers. Our state that makes a lot of the world's food isn't getting blow "R naught".

I also question that because I'm a really big news junkie and at part of spreading the news feeds our enterprise gets. There's nothing fake about the issues our insurers and health care providers are facing. I'm only seeing goofy or news that might be a "cash cow" from less than ideal and often poorly qualified outlets. In our break rooms and with some I know I also see a lot of people confusing pundits and opinion with good news.

I confess that I spend a lot of news time with the conservative Economist and Wall St. Journal but also read NY Times and the pretty good Apple and Microsoft news services.

Sadly, you're right about the symbol part. I have to be in grocery stores 1-5 days a week. Work with nearly 1000 employees who get a lot of exposure. I figure I'm protecting others wearing a mask but I've been harassed.

[BrunoBlack]

Originally Posted by rmp

Yes! from what I heard Medicare adds +$30% to every listed "COVID" Cause of Death to the facility the person was living in. I got that directly from someone working IN a nursing home.

I've already cited the details of the example I know about, it's back a few pages. So, yes, this is really happening. What the true #s are who knows, very hard to decide on who or what is believable at this point.

Fact Check

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/ho...9-death-count/

[Dirk Hofman]

Originally Posted by Haasome

Fact Check

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/ho...9-death-count/

Thanks for posting. I did already post this with a pull quote for emphasis. Didn't see a response.

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...2&postcount=71

[Kerbie]

Originally Posted by Murphy Slaw

Fauci said they don't help. Now they've become a "symbol".

That is not what Dr. Fauci said. If you're referring to the interview recently when he spoke of the symbol, you are not taking into account the entire quote. It read, "I want to protect myself and protect others, and also because I want to make it be a symbol for people to see that that's the kind of thing you should be doing."

[robj144]

I don't still quite understand folks who don't wear masks or social distance. They might not be afraid of getting the virus, which is fine, but the entire point of social distancing and masks is to minimize EVERYONE ELSE getting it and stop or slow the pandemic.

To me it's completely selfish and inconsiderate.

[RP]

Originally Posted by robj144

I don't still quite understand folks who don't wear masks or social distance. They might not be afraid of getting the virus, which is fine, but the entire point of social distancing and masks is to minimize EVERYONE ELSE getting it and stop or slow the pandemic.

To me it's completely selfish and inconsiderate.

I see freedom and social responsibility as two sides of the same coin - others only see freedom on both sides of that coin...

[rokdog49]

Originally Posted by Kerbie

That is not what Dr. Fauci said. If you're referring to the interview recently when he spoke of the symbol, you are not taking into account the entire quote. It read, "I want to protect myself and protect others, and also because I want to make it be a symbol for people to see that that's the kind of thing you should be doing."

Hip hip hooray...some much-needed truth.
Oops I promised myself not to post on this thread anymore.
I now return to my former peaceful self.

[AX17609]

The India and Brazil stories should not be overlooked. In both cases, social controls are essentially impossible.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by AX17609

The India and Brazil stories should not be overlooked. In both cases, social controls are essentially impossible.

Many experts believe that those two countries (both with surging case numbers ) are likely only mid way through the first wave.

Unfortunately Wyoming now has three more deaths (15 total)

None the less Restaurants are being opened back up today . We will see what two weeks out looks like ?

[Neil K Walk]

At this point I think TPTB are more concerned about preventing civil unrest, honestly. If the elderly and disabled succumb to this then it eases the tax burden of social programs to support them.

I'm not saying I agree with that but given how polarized people are over how this is being handled here in the US it's bringing out the worst in people, not the best.