Saturday morning thoughts about skill level

[jgottsman11]

Edited....

[jpricewood]

This thread is good news for my skill level.

[seannx]

A few years back I visited Goodall Guitars with friends. Got to meet the Goodalls - a really nice and welcoming family - who gave us a tour of the shop. Afterwards I played a few of their available guitars, did nothing special beyond basic chords and simple picking, with no vocals. Later they complimented me on how great I sounded, and how surprised they were at my skill level, having never heard me play guitar before.

One thing I think it’s sometimes hard to remember, is that to people who don’t play guitar, being able to play simple melodies and chord changes is impressive. Add in how great Goodall guitars sound anyway, and it’s a winning combination. At times we can be our own worst critics, and not appreciate how far we’ve come.

Personally, I’m practicing way more than ever now, and am at a place where I’m very satisfied with the result. Wish I had discovered the value of enough practice time years ago. I would get frustrated if I couldn’t do something the first few tries, and give up.

For me, it’s like exercising. I like to run, especially on trails, but if there’s been a break in running, maybe because of being sick, overly busy with work, or a minor injury, it can be hard to get back in a routine. I’ve discovered that even when in good shape and training regularly, the first 3/4 mile is always the hardest. If I was just to go by how I felt then, I’d stop every time. But once I get past 3/4 miles, everything shifts, and for the rest of the run it feels great.

[zmf]

Originally Posted by jgottsman11

I guess I will just stick to playing for myself since I could care less about playing songs with vocals.

OK, but next time you're in a group and have your guitar, try this experiment.
Play 3-4 bars of Vincent/Starry Starry Night -- single notes -- and watch the reaction.

[mcduffnw]

Originally Posted by jgottsman11

Good morning everyone and happy Saturday!

I was just sitting here with my breakfast and got to thinking about what non-guitar players think when I play guitar for them.

Usually if someone asks me to play a song for them, I choose one of my more complex fingerstyle pieces as they are appealing to my ear and a challenge to play, and assumably appealing to them.

However, I have found that I could play a simple G, D, Am, C for example in a nice slow melodic pace and get a better reaction out of people. Why is that? Does anyone have a similar experience?

Because the vast majority of listeners, and especially the ones...most folks...who are not music in general, or guitar aficionado's/nerds in specific...just want to hear simple, easy to listen to very melodic playing.

They like music, but they are not in deep fascination about all the theory and complexity and minutia, and whatever personal challenge you the player find exciting in playing a difficult complex piece.

They "get" the easy, simple stuff. They can follow along, make some sense, whatever sense, of it that is relevant for them. They can tune in and tune out as they might want, to eat, or drink or talk, or just think.

It's just like the scene in the movie "High Fidelity" where Rob and Dick are listening to some nice easy soft music in the morning as they get ready to open the shop, and Barry blasts in like a tornado and turns off there music and puts on his loud high octane mix tape and goes crazy and Rob shuts it off, and in the ensuing argument yells at Barry "I just want something I can ignore".

Most folks live with music mostly on the "surface" of their lives...it doesn't run deep into them quite like it does for a very serious music enthusiast or a musician.

Always keep that in mind when you play for folks, and try to know your audience, or find out who/what your audience is before you play and choose your material accordingly.

If your intention is to play for their pleasure...not yours per se'

Take YOUR pleasure from using your talent to please your audience...


duff
Be A Player...Not A Polisher

[TBman]

Originally Posted by mcduffnw

Most folks live with music mostly on the "surface" of their lives...it doesn't run deep into them quite like it does for a very serious music enthusiast or a musician.

That's it.
.
.
.
.

[ChuckS]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

...[snip]... If you play solo fingerstyle, I have found that I had to accept that I am playing for myself and if anyone else likes it, that is "icing on the cake".

...[snip]...
Tony

Hey Tony,
Long time no see.

I can totally relate to your statement above, and I'm very much ok with that situation. I play solo fingerstyle arrangements for my hobby, and for my own enjoyment. I have no desire to be an entertainer. However, I do enjoy it when players with similar interests interact; listening to each other, sharing what we enjoy, checking out the guitars. I miss the Twin Cities AGF Get-Togethers we used to have.

[Glennwillow]

I have had many experiences where I have played all kinds of music -- and I'm a singer -- and people have enjoyed it. But then I play something fairly "Mickey Mouse" that for whatever reason they relate to, and suddenly they are telling me what a great musician I am.

For most people, they can only connect to what they already know. Instrumental music is even harder for folks to connect to.

When people say stuff like that, I don't take it seriously. I understand that they like what they like, and what they like is usually something that was pounded into their heads many years ago by repetition on the TV or the radio.

Once on a camp-out 45 years ago I had my guitar with me and I was playing stuff really for myself as I was relaxing. One of the guys with us said that what I was playing didn't even sound like a guitar. (I am predominantly a finger picker.) So I grabbed a flat pick and started playing "On Top of Old Smokey" in 3/4 time, and then he looked smug and said, "Yes, that's what a guitar is supposed to sound like."

Most people live their lives in a tunnel where they see or understand very little of the world around them. Very few people are curious enough to open their eyes and ears and absorb more than what's right in front of their faces.

- Glenn

[GeneralDreedle]

I just would be interested in what people think is "complex" music as opposed to simple music. There seems to be a fair amount of patronization in this thread. Saying that most non musician people want music they don't have to think about is really an overgeneralization that is not necessarily true. Sometimes something that sounds simple but resonates with people may be deceptively complex in other ways. As an example, one of the producers of The Rolling Stones album Exile on Main Street said that Tumbling Dice was the hardest song to get right live. Turns out the languid timing with the bass and the chords wasn't as easy as it sounded.

[catt]

For the sake of discussion, I've often referred to it as the dilemma of "art music vs folk music."

Many times I've failed in performing classical and flamenco gtr. I'd say, roughly half of the time (or more) casual listeners are indifferent, or worse, to this music. They can't relate to flamenco form, or Bach. I saw the writing on the wall 30 years ago when my best friend asked, "Do you sing?" ten seconds into Page's Black Mountain Side. (I subsequently learned to sing, and Jansch's material! )

*I actually picked up fiddle and accordion playing - for its crowd-pleasing capacities.

[mcduffnw]

Originally Posted by jgottsman11

Thank you all. This was quite informative. I guess I will just stick to playing for myself since I could care less about playing songs with vocals.

Why not just play simple pleasant stuff for folks if you are around and the moment seems right?

Do you find something wrong with just making folks happy with simple music?


Last year my wife had to have a lot of invasive/surgical dental work done, and even though they have cable music TV in each treatment suite at our dentist's office, she asked me to bring a guitar a play for her, as she found that much more relaxing. She is not fond of dental work...like many.

So at four different visits, each lasting 1 1/2 to 2 hours each, I sat in a chair in the corner of the room and played softly for her.

I played songs with lyrics, but just the guitar part, instrumentals that I know, and even just simple, pleasant, major key and chord melodic sequences, just riffing on the go. I just played fingerstyle, not flatpicking/strumming, just to keep it soft and easy to listen to. I played softly, trying not to intrude on the other patients, as the suites are not walled off...but after the first visit, I got a lot of complements from the staff and they asked if I would be coming back for the other appointments, which I did. The staff even said that a number of the patients around our room enjoyed the music even though I tried to play quietly.

Now, whenever I go to the dentist with my wife, they ask me if I brought my guitar to play...sometimes is jest, but sometimes in earnest.

What could feel better than that...knowing your playing made someone happy...besides the intended person.


duff
Be A Player...Not A Polisher

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by mcduffnw

Because the vast majority of listeners, and especially the ones...most folks...who are not music in general, or guitar aficionado's/nerds in specific...just want to hear simple, easy to listen to very melodic playing.

They like music, but they are not in deep fascination about all the theory and complexity and minutia, and whatever personal challenge you the player find exciting in playing a difficult complex piece.

They "get" the easy, simple stuff. They can follow along, make some sense, whatever sense, of it that is relevant for them. They can tune in and tune out as they might want, to eat, or drink or talk, or just think.

It's just like the scene in the movie "High Fidelity" where Rob and Dick are listening to some nice easy soft music in the morning as they get ready to open the shop, and Barry blasts in like a tornado and turns off there music and puts on his loud high octane mix tape and goes crazy and Rob shuts it off, and in the ensuing argument yells at Barry "I just want something I can ignore".

Most folks live with music mostly on the "surface" of their lives...it doesn't run deep into them quite like it does for a very serious music enthusiast or a musician.

Always keep that in mind when you play for folks, and try to know your audience, or find out who/what your audience is before you play and choose your material accordingly.

If your intention is to play for their pleasure...not yours per se'

Take YOUR pleasure from using your talent to please your audience...


duff
Be A Player...Not A Polisher

Yes, a lot of truth in that. Many is the time I have been in a restaurant or other public place where the music is piped in and have commented on whatever is playing. Invariably, I get blank looks to suggest that I am the only one in the group who realizes that there is even music playing.

Tony

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

Hey Tony,
Long time no see.

I can totally relate to your statement above, and I'm very much ok with that situation. I play solo fingerstyle arrangements for my hobby, and for my own enjoyment. I have no desire to be an entertainer. However, I do enjoy it when players with similar interests interact; listening to each other, sharing what we enjoy, checking out the guitars. I miss the Twin Cities AGF Get-Togethers we used to have.

Good to hear from you Chuck. I would figure that your job is considered essential" so you are probably working from somewhere (home? work?), as my short term contract work.

...and here I thought I was just out of the loop on those gatherings. It would be fun to have those continue after the virus is done virusing us.

It has been quite a while back now that I figured out what was going on, and learned to just play for my own enjoyment. That decision made it all fun again because even if playing for others, that attitude is much more relaxing.


Tony

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by GeneralDreedle

I just would be interested in what people think is "complex" music as opposed to simple music. There seems to be a fair amount of patronization in this thread. Saying that most non musician people want music they don't have to think about is really an overgeneralization that is not necessarily true. Sometimes something that sounds simple but resonates with people may be deceptively complex in other ways. As an example, one of the producers of The Rolling Stones album Exile on Main Street said that Tumbling Dice was the hardest song to get right live. Turns out the languid timing with the bass and the chords wasn't as easy as it sounded.

I'm not so sure about the patronization. I can only speak for my posts, but my point was simply that folks want to hear vocals over instrumental fingerstyle regardless of complexity. I have seen that often enough to be fairly sure it is more common than not. I do think it is also commonly true, at least in informal music situations, that people prefer to hear the songs they know and enjoy.

Tony

[bufflehead]

Originally Posted by jgottsman11

However, I have found that I could play a simple G, D, Am, C for example in a nice slow melodic pace and get a better reaction out of people. Why is that? Does anyone have a similar experience?

Congratulations. You've just discovered the folk tradition. (You may also be discovering that cowboy chords and the fullest-sounding chords you can play.)