Saturday morning thoughts about skill level

[jgottsman11]

Good morning everyone and happy Saturday!

I was just sitting here with my breakfast and got to thinking about what non-guitar players think when I play guitar for them.

Usually if someone asks me to play a song for them, I choose one of my more complex fingerstyle pieces as they are appealing to my ear and a challenge to play, and assumably appealing to them.

However, I have found that I could play a simple G, D, Am, C for example in a nice slow melodic pace and get a better reaction out of people. Why is that? Does anyone have a similar experience?

[TBman]

Muggles like to hum/sing along with melodies. They are all wannabe singers so whatever helps them fulfill this in their minds is all good for them.

[gfspencer]

Originally Posted by TBman

Muggles like to hum/sing along with melodies. They are all wannabe singers so whatever helps them fulfill this in their minds is all good for them.

You are absolutely right. If you want to have fun and enjoy yourself with an audience sing/play something that they are familiar with. Get them to sing along.

[Wade Hampton]

The more accessible and comprehensible the music is to non-musicians, the more they’re going to like it. Complex instrumental pieces appeal mostly to the people who play them and to the occasional fellow musician who happens to be within earshot.

The average person, however, relates more easily to songs with lyrics. When I first started playing music I concentrated on ever-longer and more complex instrumentals, most of which I composed. However, after I started gigging out, I learned very quickly that there were few ways guaranteed to lose audiences entirely than playing, yes, long and complex instrumentals.

Once I started playing music for a living I limited myself to no more than one or two standalone instrumentals per set, and never opened or closed a set playing one. When I played in Irish bars I could sneak in a few more if I went into them directly from a song, as sort of an extension of the piece, but that’s about as much as a general audience will tolerate.

Short version: as a general rule, musicians enjoy instrumentals more than non-musicians do.

Hope that makes sense.


Wade Hampton Miller

[tbeltrans]

If you don't sing, your audience is only a fraction of what a player/singer might enjoy. If you play solo fingerstyle, I have found that I had to accept that I am playing for myself and if anyone else likes it, that is "icing on the cake".

The guitar playing part doesn't really matter to most folks. I was in a situation in the community room of our condo building at the daily coffee time, when a friend who lives in the building came in with a new/used guitar he had just bought. He handed it to me and I played "The Entertainer" as a solo fingerstyle piece. Everybody just talked over it, so I just handed the guitar back to my friend. His guitar playing ability encompasses simple "cowboy" chords, but he sings quite well. As soon as he started playing and singing, he had them. It was total silence. When he finished, they all clapped and told him how talented he is.

He is a good singer, and that is what people are interested in. When David Qualey came to town, a friend and I tried very hard to dredge up an audience for his concert. It was a lot of footwork for very little return.

That is just the way it seems to be. Tommy Emmanuel figured out that pyrotechnics will hold an audience and then he can slip in some of his quieter, more sophisticated material from time to time, a bit like a band doing covers but slipping a few originals here and there.

Tony

[zmf]

Originally Posted by jgottsman11

However, I have found that I could play a simple G, D, Am, C for example in a nice slow melodic pace and get a better reaction out of people.

"Give me some words I can dance to or a melody that rhymes."

I don't sing much either, so I get your point. Intricate instrumentals mean you're giving a performance, and your audience observes, which is often awkward. Let them participate, at least emotionally if not vocally, and things are more relaxed.

It can be hard to just slow down and hit the melody line.

[Pnewsom]

A huge part of capturing an audience comes from speaking and getting them to relate to you.

This is Tommy Emmanuels biggest strength, he gets them to buy in to him and what he does, and then he delivers the goods. In other words he is entertaining as well as talented.

If you can’t do that you are sunk, unless you have established yourself as a recording artist that people know and love your material from the radio.

Eric Clapton comes to mind in that he doesn’t have much to say but a lot of people will come to see him because of his body of work.

Small venues require a lot of tunes that folk know and love, and constant engagement with them between songs. I struggle with the engagement part, but endeavour to find audiences that relate to the tunes that I cover.

Highbrow material that and coming off in self-absorbed way is rarely going to work for mixed audiences.

[brandall10]

Complex pieces can certainly grab the average listener... but there has to be a strong, present rhythmic or melodic motif that underpins the piece. Think about the most lasting classical music. I love this scene from the movie Amadeus back in the early 80s

https://youtu.be/QCnOx4lmnbg

[KevinH]

Yes, for the general public, vocalists generally seem to win out over good instrumentalists, which has always been my bane, since my voice sounds something like a cat being sucked into a vacuum cleaner. This also partly explains why purely instrumental players like, say, John Fahey, never had as big of an audience as someone who also sings. I really appreciated Steve Goodman, who could mix his superb playing in with nicely crafted lyrics.

[WordMan]

Originally Posted by jgottsman11

Good morning everyone and happy Saturday!

I was just sitting here with my breakfast and got to thinking about what non-guitar players think when I play guitar for them.

Usually if someone asks me to play a song for them, I choose one of my more complex fingerstyle pieces as they are appealing to my ear and a challenge to play, and assumably appealing to them.

However, I have found that I could play a simple G, D, Am, C for example in a nice slow melodic pace and get a better reaction out of people. Why is that? Does anyone have a similar experience?

Performing is a different craft-set vs. Playing Guitar. It sounds like you can Play Guitar, but you are figuring out Performing as it works for you.

Performing Rule #1: You are there to Sell the Song.

Performing Rule #2: Read the Room. Know who can tolerate a fingerpicking-guitar-nerd-fest vs. playing songs that engage a crowd - which is your job.

Do your job.

[jklotz]

Wow! It's Saturday morning? I had no idea.

[JKA]

What's the difference between a jazz guitarist and a rock guitarist?

A rock guitarist plays three chords in front of millions of people...

[SpruceTop]

Generally used to describe country music, the phrase "three chords and the truth" can also translate to meaning melodies and songs people have heard and recognize, and that can make them smile and sing or hum along. How many of us have learned and practiced complex songs only to have them evoke little or no response from listeners in a pub? Now, give them 20 minutes of non-stop, sing-along songs and watch the pub owner's face light up as mass quantities of drinks are ordered by exuberant patrons. People like familiar but you can give them a complex arrangement of familiar that will likely engage them.

[lowrider]

Even Leo Kottke, one of the greatest acoustic players of a generation realized that if he wanted anyone to listen, he had to sing.

Eric Clapton, same

Richard Thompson, same

Keith Richards

Only other guitar players want to listen to solo fingerpicking instrumentals. And then it's only to pick them apart!

[GeneralDreedle]

I went to a John McLaughlin concert at Jazz Alley a number of years ago. I had listened to his stuff when he was with Miles Davis and just loved his jazz blues fusion that seemed complex and soulful at the same time. I was so disappointed that he played none of that stuff and really was just playing a ton of complex scales. There was little feeling to it, as brilliant as it probably was. It was made worse by my friend's young son telling me that Keith Richards was an average at best guitarist as we were waiting in line. I left thinking I'd rather listen to him play than what I just heard.
My point is that I don't think we should phrase this as "true musicians appreciate long complex stuff and the great unwashed can only appreciate simpler stuff." The brilliance of someone like Richards is at least comparable to others like McLaughlin, even if he doesn't know every scale in the book.