Attempting to learn bluegrass/scales

[dhodgeh]

Fiddle Tunes. Learn as many as you can, with multiple variations of the basic melody. Don't overlook the rhythm aspect of these tunes - some of that backup playing can be as sophisticated as the leads.

Flatpick Guitar Magazine, and Steve Kaufman's sites are your friend here.

Heck, you can get the entire 20 years archive of Flatpick Guitar Magazine on a thumb drive. Enough material there to keep you busy for a life time.

D

[dwalton]

Go check out Bryan Sutton and his great stuff on Artistworks. He’s a superb player of course, and a great teacher as well.

https://go.artistworks.com/free-musi...s-bryan-sutton

[lowrider]

When this lock-down is over, look for your local Bluegrass Association BG jams. You'll learn everything you need to know by playing with those other players.

[J Patrick]

Originally Posted by lowrider

When this lock-down is over, look for your local Bluegrass Association BG jams. You'll learn everything you need to know by playing with those other players.

...the best advice of all....

[JohnW63]

I would learn the major scales, WHILE you start listening to bluegrass stuff.

I used to think that learning the scales, which must be different for every spot on the neck would take FOR EVER to learn. But, guess what ? There are really only 5 patterns to learn for scales that start on the 6 string and 5 patterns to learn with scales that start on the 5th string. Once you have those patterns down in " finger memory " you can move them anywhere on the neck. I try to learn ONE pattern at a time.

http://www.jayskyler.com/major-scale...-key-of-c.html

Many start with the second pattern down and call that pattern 1, then the next is pattern 2, ect, then you cycle to the top for pattern 5. Then it just keeps repeating as you move up the neck. Pattern 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and back to pattern 1 and then 2 again, as you go.


The pentatonic scales are easier, because they have less notes in the scale ( 5 = penta ) .

[birdsong]

I started off 40+ years ago with country and radio hits. Then into all sorts of “Folk”, learning some basic theory along the way. When I lived in Baton Rouge a few years for grad school, I joined local Cajun music jams, great fun and more learning esp. rhythm. As stated, do not overlook rhythm.

I got my current job in NC 30 years ago. I decided to learn bluegrass. I found a great instructor. Then I got access to the internet (I know, hard to believe there was life before the world wide web). I had also purchased some books, and (hold on…..), cassettes (“Bluegrass Jazz style”).

I have enjoyed all of these resources, and while I try to avoid the world “should”, you should consider them all as well. Along with other ideas noted in this thread. I had a light to moderate grasp of theory prior to beginning the bluegrass path, but as I went deep into fiddle tunes I really honed my grasp of several keys. I learned close to 100 tunes, across 7 keys. I ended up learning this many because I was always playing with some small group of folks, each person bringing in new material over the years. I never really learned leads in bluegrass songs – I was having too much fun with the fiddle tunes. But I love playing rhythm to others singing.

I still like to go online now and then for some “continuing education”. I really enjoy what others offer up musically. I still use magazine articles as well. And it will take me another lifetime to get through this book of 10 songs of David Grier……

I do like to warm up a little by noodling around in a given scale or two. It’s hard for me to keep doing just scalar work, for more than 10-15 minutes at a time. But it’s a good way to warm up. In addition to “scales” I agree about learning arpeggios. That’s another option when warming up. And there are a million diagrams online to get you going. When I need another idea for practicing scales or arpeggios I just search on Pinterest and choose from the many that pop up.

And to paraphrase what one person stated earlier, I love how learning a new fiddle tune is like starting over from the very beginning - even after all these years. Recently I've gone back to re-learn a few and even that has its challenges.

John

[Robin, Wales]

First off, the guitar is not front and centre in bluegrass. It's primary responsibility is to lay down rhythm with the bass player. If you're lucky you may get a lead break for half a verse every 3 or 4 songs. Listen to the classic bluegrass bands and the guitar doesn't feature beyond being the vehicle for solid rhythm.

Forget scales. If you want to become a useful bluegrass guitar player learn bluegrass rhythm patterns, some bass runs, licks and fills, the lyrics to all the bluegrass standards and how to sing harmony. Even learning to flat pick fiddle tunes is something of a waist of time as the fiddle, mandolin and banjo will have the bigger slices of that cake while you and the bass player keep the train on its tracks.

[Joe Beamish]

Originally Posted by Robin, Wales

First off, the guitar is not front and centre in bluegrass. It's primary responsibility is to lay down rhythm with the bass player. If you're lucky you may get a lead break for half a verse every 3 or 4 songs. Listen to the classic bluegrass bands and the guitar doesn't feature beyond being the vehicle for solid rhythm.

Forget scales. If you want to become a useful bluegrass guitar player learn bluegrass rhythm patterns, some bass runs, licks and fills, the lyrics to all the bluegrass standards and how to sing harmony. Even learning to flat pick fiddle tunes is something of a waist of time as the fiddle, mandolin and banjo will have the bigger slices of that cake while you and the bass player keep the train on its tracks.

OP is inspired by players like Molly Tuttle and Billy Strings. They know scales.

[RTR]

Originally Posted by Joe Beamish

OP is inspired by players like Molly Tuttle and Billy Strings. They know scales.

They certainly do! Their playing causes me to case my Martin in frustration, at least for a while.

[JohnW63]

Forget scales. If you want to become a useful bluegrass guitar player learn bluegrass rhythm patterns, some bass runs, licks and fills,

What if the song is in a different key than the lick or bass run or fill you learned ? Why if you ONLY knew how those bits were built and could transfer them to other places on the neck !

Oh, that's right, if you know the scales and keys you COULD do that.

Just because it's bluegrass, doesn't mean knowing music won't help you be better.

[Robin, Wales]

Originally Posted by Joe Beamish

OP is inspired by players like Molly Tuttle and Billy Strings. They know scales.

Yep - they do now. But both of them learnt to play bluegrass rhythm and sing solidly first. Rhythm, licks fills and turnarounds next. Then breaks based around the melody. Then the fancy stuff once the basics are down solid.

In terms of playing time how much "lead" playing up the neck here compared to solid, solid rhythm playing with intro, bass runs, fills, turnarounds all based around the open chords and, of course, singing.



Regarding learning scales for different keys, in bluegrass players tend to use 3 positions (open G, open C, open D) and a capo to move those. Remember, that the underlying reason for the songs key in bluegrass is to fit the voices.

As has already been said, if you want to play bluegrass then listen to the music and gain an understanding of the genre. I know that this is a guitar forum but bluegrass isn't about the guitar. The guitar has a job to do. Understand that apprenticeship first.

[Su_H.]

I have nothing to offer you on bluegrass and it seems you have a book of scales....

I just came in here to say it's never too late. I stopped playing for over a decade. I just started playing again almost exactly one year ago. This time around, I'm like you. I am truly studying guitar playing...just mostly classical.

Best of luck,
Su

[BluesBelly]

Originally Posted by Guilty Spark

I would strongly disagree that online tutorials are a waste of time.

I've learned stuff in a matter of hours that took me months to learn before the internets.

Of course, it depends on the tutorial and tutor, but overall, I've seen some really excellent tutorials on the internet.

For the amazingly low price of free.

I heartily agree with Guilty Spark who has made good points In support of online tutorials.

Additionally online tutorials are great for the player wishing to add a bit of zing in the form of a short lick interspersed with cording.

How about the dreaded Dead End Lull that happens when we stall out and have little direction in our practice sessions? Well, find a Paul Davids online tutorial, sit back, learn more about guitar and music theory, As well as playing and practice tips, in a few minutes than You could almost anywhere else.

How about introducing yourself to a new style of music that’s outside of your comfort box.

It’s all online.

Blues

[JohnW63]

I've never understood some posters feeling the learning MORE about music and the guitar is a waste of time and that just learning chords and riffs is the way to go. Why the aversion to learning more and being able to DO more ?

[KCharlesD]

Originally Posted by Jwills57

Hey, D.Loseth--Very good question. I've heard similar variations from several of my students. There really is no such thing as a "Bluegrass" scale, I don't think. My opinion, for what it's worth, is to start by learning 6th and 5th string root major scales. Then work on the 5 positions of the minor pentatonic scale. This should give you a lot to chew on. I teach the natural minor scales, too, because the natural minor scale sounds wonderful played over many type of progressions. Of course, there are an infinite number of scales, like major pentatonic, diminished, etc. But what has worked best for me over the years is to take fewer things and learn them more deeply rather than the opposite. Best, Jack

I agree with this and take a similar approach with my students. Definitely learn major scales using open strings for bluegrass and learn lots of licks, whilst listening to lots of classic examples of the genre (maybe not all super fast Billy Strings). Then slowly learn fiddle tunes arranged for guitar,