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  #1  
Old 03-26-2020, 02:50 PM
spock spock is offline
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Default Rating guitar playing ability

I frequently see the terms expert, advanced, advanced intermediate, low intermediate, advanced beginner, etc. thrown around and wondered what they truly meant. Granted, rank beginner if fairly easy and most would agree Tommy Emmanuel is an expert, but for the rest of us in terms of playing the guitar only and not taking into account knowledge of music theory or ability to read music, as some are fantastic players but can't read a lick of music or tell you anything about music theory, while others know everything there is to know about music theory but can't really play worth a hoot, what to you constitutes the various levels of guitar playing ability? Obviously, some are flat pickers, some fingerstyle, some acoustic and others electric, etc, but how would you describe your relative level of playing ability and on what do you base that? In other words, I think and intermediate guitar player should be able to do this, or when you are comfortable being able to do this, you are certainly an advanced player, and so forth.

No wrong answers, just curious.

Last edited by spock; 03-27-2020 at 04:25 PM.
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Old 03-26-2020, 02:59 PM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
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I've been looking at the D'addario Player's circle, and they ask you to rate your abilities with some strange criteria.

For some of us, this is a hobby, for others it is a semi pro activity, and others are professional.

Yes, I know that now one can go to some sorts of college and get a degree in rock guitar or some such, but, seriously? Why are we trying to categorise the uncategorisable?

Would Johnny Cash, Bill Monroe, Guy Clark, etc., pass any academic tests? Were they succesful? Yeah, I reckon so.
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  #3  
Old 03-26-2020, 03:09 PM
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Mr. Jelly Mr. Jelly is offline
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I don't care about a musicians guitar playing ability. I appreciate their music. They can have all the ability and expertise in the world and even put the notes in all the right places and yet their music can leave me cold. I've heard great music played with one or two chords. I believe today's focus is in error. All flash, no substance.
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Old 03-26-2020, 03:18 PM
Brucebubs Brucebubs is offline
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I'm a below average player with some above average guitars.
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Old 03-26-2020, 03:35 PM
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Guitar playing is my hobby, but if I'm shopping for a new tune to play I'm in the intermediate aisle.
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Old 03-26-2020, 03:45 PM
DukeX DukeX is offline
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After 40 years I enjoy playing simple stuff well, both fingerstyle and strumming/flatpicking, with a focus on rhythm/groove and tone.

Not sure exactly where that puts me, but it's nowhere near professional or expert or even advanced intermediate IMO.

But the fun levels are high.
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Old 03-26-2020, 03:48 PM
lowrider lowrider is offline
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It doesn't matter.

Timing, Timing, Timing

It's the most important thing. If you have good timing, you can do a lot of things wrong and still sound pretty good

If you don't have good timing, you can do everything else great and still sound pretty bad!
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Old 03-26-2020, 04:29 PM
Su_H. Su_H. is offline
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On a scale of 0 through 10, 0 being a novice and 10 being world class, I would say I'm at a 5. I would be content at 7 if I ever get there.
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Old 03-26-2020, 04:47 PM
FrankHudson FrankHudson is offline
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Yes, this sort of self-rating is entirely problematic. Already the thread has brought up the issues of the unrateability of desirable traits in an art like music.

But even if we're talking skills, something that one could design objective tests for, everyone who looks at self-rating by individuals in any testable criteria finds out we are unreliable at it.
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Old 03-26-2020, 04:49 PM
Dbone Dbone is offline
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My children will eat regardless so I measure myself on a different scale. My own. The only one that matters. My motivation comes from my own personal level of enjoyment only. That is not necessarily based on how awesome I am, or how awesome I think I am.

For others it my be how much the gig paid them, or how many hits they got on YouTube. Whatever motivates you to have fun and enjoy playing the guitar, I say go for it. It’s all good.
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Old 03-26-2020, 05:37 PM
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Tough crowd here - COVID-19 induced crankiness I guess. Just having some light hearted fun here - not rocket science.

What I'm asking is:

What technical aspects of guitar playing do YOU think puts one into a particular category or another. Not definite, I get it. Not verifiable, I get it. Not important, I get it. Just a fun exercise, not much different than giving a certain review of a popular book or movie or best rock and roll groups of all time or running shoes or whatever.

For example: I think being able to play the basic open chord forms cleanly and smoothly and without looking elevates one out of rank beginner status and into maybe an advanced beginner category, whereas being able to add barre chords into the mix cleanly maybe starts nipping at low intermediate. Wrapping a thumb over top on a barre chord is more of an intermediate skill in my opinion.

See how easy this is? But I'm full of dog doo on my assessments, you say. Very well may be, but it's an exercise in pondering the unknowable and expanding your cortex as you sit and wonder if you'll ever be able to visit a guitar shop again.
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Old 03-26-2020, 05:53 PM
ssjk ssjk is offline
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OK. I’ll take a leap here and answer the question. As it happens, I worked up a summary of what I think various EARLY levels of guitar capability would cover and made it the starting point for the Guitars For Vets class I started teaching last year.

I wrote this mainly to describe the path ahead for my students, so they would have realistic goals for a 10 week/ once a week program and set expectations for what they would have to do to advance beyond that.

FWIW, it is available on dropbox here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/lipshg355k...out.pages?dl=0

The last time this topic came up here it occurred to me that the reverse construction of the question makes it much easier to answer. Something along the lines of “if you can’t do this as it applies to the music you want to play, then you are not yet an intermediate/advanced/expert level guitarist”.

I think making each criterion necessary but not sufficient for categorization and defining the necessary capabilities for individual genres makes it possible to have the conversation.

For example: I like bluegrass and country music and can play rhythm and bass runs and turnarounds and fills for most anything in those genres, but I can’t play leads and have never taken a break in a jam cause I can’t. So I’m not an expert or advanced level guitarist in those genres. I may or may not be intermediate, but according to my criteria I am definitely not above that.

In my ratings of level for bluegrass things like sight reading, knowing theory, knowing alternate tunings, etc would not be relevant. But if I were rating classical (sight reading) or Celtic (DADGAD) guitarists they would be.

Me personally? for these genres I can't be rated above these levels:

Celtic and classical : Beginner (can't sight read and don't know enough theory)
Bluegrass : Advanced intermediate (can't flatpack a lead or break)
Country : Intermediate (can't do much with electric guitar, can't play a lead)
Rock : Lower intermediate (can't play leads, can't do much with electric)
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Old 03-26-2020, 06:11 PM
spock spock is offline
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ssjk,

Thank you - that is excellent! We have a small parting gift for you in the lobby.

Agree that separating into genres is appropriate and makes sense. For those who want to further break this exercise down into differing musical/playing styles, have at it. For those who play one style more or less exclusively, staying within that genre ok as well.

By the way, I find it interesting you can do all of those things within the bluegrass genre but can't play a break or lead. That's not a criticism, just surprised. I'm betting if you put on a bluegrass rhythm background track in your music room and were hanging out there by yourself you could probably pull off a run or two in short order with the musical scale knowledge and pick dexterity you already possess.
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Old 03-26-2020, 06:16 PM
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Ok, I guess changing chords in your basic 80 to 100bpm tune fluidly would move someone above beginner.

After that it's a moving target. What musicians need from other musicians in a professional setting is different from what a sit at home player like me requires to enjoy playing.

I suppose it's two different ladders, that of a player and that of a musician. Sometimes they get twisted together but they don't have to be. Hopefully this makes sense.
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  #15  
Old 03-26-2020, 06:25 PM
ssjk ssjk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spock View Post
ssjk,

Thank you - that is excellent! We have a small parting gift for you in the lobby.

Agree that separating into genres is appropriate and makes sense. For those who want to further break this exercise down into differing musical/playing styles, have at it. For those who play one style more or less exclusively, staying within that genre ok as well.

By the way, I find it interesting you can do all of those things within the bluegrass genre but can't play a break or lead. That's not a criticism, just surprised. I'm betting if you put on a bluegrass rhythm background track in your music room and were hanging out there by yourself you could probably pull off a run or two in short order with the musical scale knowledge and pick dexterity you already possess.
Yeah. I find it interesting too. I think the basic problem is that I am primarily a singer and a finger picker and I think in terms of chords first and single notes second if at all. So if I do a break it is using fingers and working from one or more chord forms while keeping the song/chords going. Probably because mostly I sing and have to provide my own accompaniment.
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