natural finish for old guitar

[westikle]

i have a 1960-something Gibson B-25 that was refinished by someone with absolutely no clue what they were doing. i've sanded the entire thing down to raw wood and now don't know where to go. i'm not trying to replicate the original look, i want a natural non-laquered finish. where to i go from here? some initial questions i have are:

what grit do i need to sand this thing to? i'm thinking 800?

should i use any grain filler, sanding sealer, etc?

is tung oil the best option for this? that's mostly what i've found on the net.

do i need to treat the neck differently from the rest of the guitar. should i sand to higher grit?

thanks
wes

[runamuck]

320 is fine enough for wood. 800 and up is for abrading finish.

Grain filler is commonly used on open pore wood like mahogany and rosewood but not on woods usually seen on guitar tops like spruce, cedar or redwood.

You could use tung or some other kind of oil on the neck, back and sides but don't use it on the top: it'll damp the wood making it unresponsive.

I hope you don't make the same mistakes your predecessor did. It sounds like you're in completely unfamiliar territory. Simply sanding the top, removing wood to one extent or another, is risky and can ruin a good sounding guitar.

[westikle]

Thanks runamuck. I wouldn’t say I’m completely in unknown territory, I’ve finished a couple electrics before, but they were a solid nitro finish. I’m not worried about the sound honestly, this guitar has a ton of sentimental value (bought by my grandfather) and I’m happy to have it back in good hands. I’ve fixed a couple cracked braces on the inside, and I’m contemplating fret replacement but right now just focused on the finish. I’m thinking something along the line of the very natural finish on a lot of Taylors I’ve looked at.

Anyway, the question for today is, is sanding sealer/grain filler something that would show on a natural finish? And is this something I won’t really know that I need until after I’ve sanded down to 320?

EDIT: I meant tru-oil earlier not tung oil

[runamuck]

Originally Posted by westikle

Anyway, the question for today is, is sanding sealer/grain filler something that would show on a natural finish? And is this something I won’t really know that I need until after I’ve sanded down to 320?

EDIT: I meant tru-oil earlier not tung oil

When you say, "natural finish", do you mean a finish that's not high gloss?

Also, everything I said about tung oil applies to Tru-Oil.

[westikle]

Yeah I guess I should have made that more clear. Basically, I don’t want to spray it, especially in this humid NC weather. I read somewhere that tru-oil, despite the name, acts more as a surface varnish that hardens.

[Taylor Ham]

Originally Posted by westikle

Yeah I guess I should have made that more clear. Basically, I don’t want to spray it, especially in this humid NC weather. I read somewhere that tru-oil, despite the name, acts more as a surface varnish that hardens.

Sometimes gunstock oils take a long time to dry if you dont apply them mixed with thinner, in extremely thin coats, in a humid environment like yours. I had a small box remain sticky for months, learned that lesson real good. I think there are better options to finish a guitar with. If i caught your drift, Taylor's natural, non glossy finishes on the made in mexico models use an oil based varnish. Bruce Sexauer uses one oil pU from Ace Hardware to good effect.

You might also want to check if the top was sanded below the level of the bridge. It could lift later if it is.

[runamuck]

Originally Posted by westikle

Yeah I guess I should have made that more clear. Basically, I don’t want to spray it, especially in this humid NC weather. I read somewhere that tru-oil, despite the name, acts more as a surface varnish that hardens.

Yeah, Tru Oil hardens but is very thin, allowing it to penetrate the wood. If you don't want to seal first, thin the Tru Oil with mineral spirits and apply as thinly as you can which will in effect block succeeding coats from penetrating.

Sealing with shellac sealer is preferable, though.

[westikle]

Originally Posted by runamuck

Yeah, Tru Oil hardens but is very thin, allowing it to penetrate the wood. If you don't want to seal first, thin the Tru Oil with mineral spirits and apply as thinly as you can which will in effect block succeeding coats from penetrating.

Sealing with shellac sealer is preferable, though.

If i used a sanding sealer would that be adequate? Does it fill the grain at all or would i need to use a grain filler as well?

Taylor Ham, some of these guitars used a plastic bridge that are known to lift eventually. This one seems in good shape. There's about an eighth inch perimeter around the bridge i haven's sanded yet. I'll be sure to be carefull.

[westikle]

also i'll upload some pictures soon to show what i'm working with. i'm not sure of the wood either.

[lar]

I'm curious - how does it sound w/absolutely no finish?

[westikle]

Originally Posted by lar

I'm curious - how does it sound w/absolutely no finish?

Honestly couldn’t tell you. Maybe I should string it up and give it a whirl.

[runamuck]

Originally Posted by westikle

If i used a sanding sealer would that be adequate? Does it fill the grain at all or would i need to use a grain filler as well?

Sanding sealer does virtually nothing to fill the grain.

[redir]

You might not need to pore fill it since it was already done originally and you sanded back to wood which is what you do when you pore fill anyway. But just look at it real close in good light and perhaps give it a wipe with a damp cloth or Naptha and see if you can see any pores.

I would strongly suggest you use nitro on this guitar. The value of the instrument is halved because of the refinish now but that is what the original finish would have been so it's appropriate to use it in a restoration. The Stew Mac rattle can stuff does a fine job if you are patient and careful. If you do go that route come back for more advice.

[Fathand]

Assuming spruce top, no grain filling required, mahogany back sides may require filling if you sanded with coarse 60-100 paper. Aquacoat is easy to use.

I would refinish with nitro as there may be traces left of the old finish. Aerosol nitro works ok.
Alternately, shellac will go over any traces of old finish and Zinsser aerosol shellac works ok too as a top coat or a sealer coat.

[ssstewart]

was this a B-25 or B-25N from the 60's? Im assuming the natural since you said you want to go natural or was it cherry or sunburst originally?

myself,i would put some strings on the thing first and see how it sounds before i did anything...

if you do move forward with refinishing i would not allow anything coarser then 320-400 grit to touch it period...

since i assume you want to maintain the character/age of it, i would not try to "restore" the finish fully..show its love and wear imo. this is not due to intrinsic value since its already been coated previously incorrectly. moreso to show exactly the life its lived but try to showcase it original beauty.

i believe most of the original 1961------ onward B-25s were lacquered. i may be wrong on that... But i would not lacquer it myself. I would use a controlled, very controlled wipe on finish that can be applied in extremely thin coats. my 29 stewart took 6 months to restore and the majority of that time was on the finish, not the neck reset/bridge work etc. good luck and show us some pics