Pursuits where the “Best” Doesn’t Help a Beginner

[saxonblue]

I'll go with photogaraphy. I think someone inexperienced will capture better images without any difficulty using the average smartphone than they would with just a midrange bridge zoom (let alone a decent higher end camera).

[posternutbag]

Originally Posted by reeve21

All forms of boating, especially sailing. You've got to start small in order to feel and understand the forces that affect a boat moving through the water. Preferably while you are a kid. I started as an adult, and quickly learned that it's not like driving a car

Lots of financially successful folks start out with large boats, and some get themselves in trouble because they never developed a feel for for it. You learn things faster on a small boat, because the feedback is more immediate.

Totally agree. The best sailors I know started out in Optis when they were kids. Optimists are bathtubs with a tiny sail, but you learn learn so much about boat handling from racing dinghies. Everything you learn in dinghies applies up, but not everything in big boats applies back down.

I actually started in Sunfish and Lasers, and I still believe the Laser is the best proving ground for aspiring sailors, especially adults and kids too big for the Opti.

[Scott O]

Scrapbooking
Knitting
Stamp collecting

[Joe Beamish]

I’m not sure that most of these examples are a good analogy for “best “guitars.

A fighter jet airplane is not the “best” form of an airplane, because it is an entirely different thing from a piper cub or whatever.

Whereas any steel string acoustic guitar is basically the same thing as any other steel string acoustic guitar. Same form.

I can think of situations where starting out with the most expensive, highest quality instrument would be wasteful, especially with a child.

However, as far as learning to play goes, there’s no reason why the highest quality instrument wouldn’t be a better choice than a crummy piece of plywood with terrible intonation, etc.

[CarolD]

Sculling in a 1x. THe finest boats are tippy as all get out and can lead to really poor results if someone makes the jump too soon in their development.

[Slothead56]

I’ll throw out cooking. Mrs. Slot and I like to cook (she’s much, much better than me) and have pretty expensive cookware and utensils. While they can be used by a novice cook, I’m not certain they would help in their learning.

[Steve DeRosa]

Big-body (18"+) archtop guitars and Top Fuel dragsters - finely-tuned, temperamental, ultra-high performance machines both, either of which can be a total disaster in the hands of the uninitiated...

[reeve21]

Originally Posted by posternutbag

Totally agree. The best sailors I know started out in Optis when they were kids. Optimists are bathtubs with a tiny sail, but you learn learn so much about boat handling from racing dinghies. Everything you learn in dinghies applies up, but not everything in big boats applies back down.

I actually started in Sunfish and Lasers, and I still believe the Laser is the best proving ground for aspiring sailors, especially adults and kids too big for the Opti.

Yes, kids who started in Optis, 420's, Dyers, etc. have a feel for it that escapes me! For the non sailors reading this, those boats can tip over if you lose focus for a second in strong winds. My progression, as a young adult, was Sunfish, Blue Jay, Ensign. Sailed those small boats for several years before acquiring a family and moving to cruising boats (26, 30 and now 35 feet). I was an infrequent and lousy racer, but I still learned a lot that I would have missed if I had started out on a larger boat.

[posternutbag]

Originally Posted by reeve21

Yes, kids who started in Optis, 420's, Dyers, etc. have a feel for it that escapes me! For the non sailors reading this, those boats can tip over if you lose focus for a second in strong winds. My progression, as a young adult, was Sunfish, Blue Jay, Ensign. Sailed those small boats for several years before acquiring a family and moving to cruising boats (26, 30 and now 35 feet). I was an infrequent and lousy racer, but I still learned a lot that I would have missed if I had started out on a larger boat.

I think everyone who wants to sail should spend a summer season racing Sunfish or Lasers. Again, dinghy racing teaches boat handling to a degree unmatched in other types of sailing. I sailed in high school and college, and I think I figured out that I have roll tacked a sailboat somewhere between 50K and 60K times.

But again, going back to the OP, starting in a Sunfish or a Laser makes way more sense than immediately jumping into something like a Melges 14 or (God forbid) a Finn, something so overpowered that you will pitchpole in a nanosecond. I am actually a big fan of Snipes, and raced them in high school (in addition to Sunfish, 420s and JY 15s), lots of options for sail trim and rig adjustment, but pretty stable.

[Joe Beamish]

Originally Posted by posternutbag

I think everyone who wants to sail should spend a summer season racing Sunfish or Lasers. Again, dinghy racing teaches boat handling to a degree unmatched in other types of sailing. I sailed in high school and college, and I think I figured out that I have roll tacked a sailboat somewhere between 50K and 60K times.

But again, going back to the OP, starting in a Sunfish or a Laser makes way more sense than immediately jumping into something like a Melges 14 or (God forbid) a Finn, something so overpowered that you will pitchpole in a nanosecond. I am actually a big fan of Snipes, and raced them in high school (in addition to Sunfish, 420s and JY 15s), lots of options for sail trim and rig adjustment, but pretty stable.

What does this mean for guitars? I don’t think the analogy holds. A well built high-end guitar is still the same form of a thing as a cheap piece of plywood with rotten intonation.

It’s not a different kind of boat. It’s simply the same boat with better materials and craftsmanship.

[posternutbag]

Originally Posted by Joe Beamish

What does this mean for guitars? I don’t think the analogy holds. A well built high-end guitar is still the same form of a thing as a cheap piece of plywood with rotten intonation.

It’s not a different kind of boat. It’s simply the same boat with better materials and craftsmanship.

It has nothing to do with guitars.

The OP asked, “What pursuits are there where a beginner isn’t well served by starting with the best gear…”

Sailing is, IMO, an answer to that question. The question itself isn’t guitar related. I presume that’s why this discussion is being held in Open Mic.

[Joe Beamish]

Originally Posted by davidbeinct

Thoughts from the thread about ability level and high end guitars-
What pursuits are there where a beginner isn’t well served by starting with the best gear, usually translated as most expensive. I can think of a few.
Skiing, usually the most expensive boots and skis require the skier know how to drive a ski. Beginning skiers need softer more forgiving boots and skis.
Motorcycles, same kind of thing. Starting on a race replica is not a good idea for a new rider, nor any of the big cruisers, adventure bikes, etc.
Cars too but not quite to the extent of bikes.
What other endeavors truly have gear where a new person truly is ill served by the “best” gear?

The very first line mentions “ability level and high end guitars.”

[Joe Beamish]

Originally Posted by posternutbag

It has nothing to do with guitars.

The OP asked, “What pursuits are there where a beginner isn’t well served by starting with the best gear…”

Sailing is, IMO, an answer to that question. The question itself isn’t guitar related. I presume that’s why this discussion is being held in Open Mic.

Also see post #14.

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by posternutbag

Totally agree. The best sailors I know started out in Optis when they were kids. Optimists are bathtubs with a tiny sail, but you learn learn so much about boat handling from racing dinghies. Everything you learn in dinghies applies up, but not everything in big boats applies back down.

I actually started in Sunfish and Lasers, and I still believe the Laser is the best proving ground for aspiring sailors, especially adults and kids too big for the Opti.

Lasers are great. I wish the rest of the family wanted to keep the one we just sold. I'm certain my wife and one son are so good from all the learning done with a Laser and sailboards. We were told they are not for beginners but my sailing instructor son didn't hear that.

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by reeve21

All forms of boating, especially sailing. You've got to start small in order to feel and understand the forces that affect a boat moving through the water. Preferably while you are a kid. I started as an adult, and quickly learned that it's not like driving a car

Lots of financially successful folks start out with large boats, and some get themselves in trouble because they never developed a feel for for it. You learn things faster on a small boat, because the feedback is more immediate.

I live on the south coast of England. lots of Marinas around.
I've seen many midlife crises include buying a boat.
Often compared to standing fully dressed in a cold shower tearing up £50 notes.