People Loving Casein Picks? Here's Why. (see embedded video). Share Your Experience.

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by UncleJesse

I was worried about the flex issue coming from nylon so I went with a CLF .75 and it was a good go-between because it has some give. Ultimately my main pick now is a BC TD35 beveled edge for picking and that CLF.75 as a strummer.

Jesse, that's a good combo. A .75 mm will give you just a little more flex vs the .90. Hey, we're just happy to be part of the conversation.

Take Care,
Scott

[The Kid!]

Is all casein the same?

My EML sounds warmer and feels softer than my CLP at the same thickness. Both sound great, just different. My BC TD60 is still my favorite by a hair.

[TNO]

Off topic, but I just have to say I am incredibly jealous Scott that you have such a wonderful venue to perform in!

[Silly Moustache]

Hi SM, it's the other SM here.

Interesting story about casein, or galalith etc.

I looked for some info on it on Y/T as I thought I had seen/heard that it can be made at home with milk and vinegar. Seems like its main use is for body builders (?!)

After my investment into Blue Chip picks I have pretty much stopped searching for the ideal pick, but as you might remember, during my illness in 2017, I experimented in trying to emulate the shapes and bevels of their picks and succeeded to a large extent.

However my ideal Blue Chip picks (TAD50s) are usually accompanied by Wegen TF140s, because they are the best back up I've found, and prefer them for my 12 strings and my National reso.

I know that Michel Wegen refuses to identify his material (because I asked him) but I've always kinds assumed that his material is casein.

Any thoughts?

[Murphy Slaw]

I'm going to order one of yours and check it out Scott. My first choice is the Bluechip, but I'm getting mad....

The oceans are filling up with garbage again, and mostly plastic. The videos and documentaries make me sick.

Why do simple objects need so much plastic packaging? They don't.

We need to return to renewable packaging and stuff that breaks down quicker. Like paper. Trees are renewable and they just die and fall over anyhow. I've got 30 acres of them falling over all the time.

I'm all for protein based plastic but am fed up with everything being wrapped up in bullet proof plastic that requires a chain saw to open a package of batteries.

Carry on.

[PiousDevil]

Originally Posted by Murphy Slaw

I'm going to order one of yours and check it out Scott. My first choice is the Bluechip, but I'm getting mad....



The oceans are filling up with garbage again, and mostly plastic. The videos and documentaries make me sick.



Why do simple objects need so much plastic packaging? They don't.



We need to return to renewable packaging and stuff that breaks down quicker. Like paper. Trees are renewable and they just die and fall over anyhow. I've got 30 acres of them falling over all the time.



I'm all for protein based plastic but am fed up with everything being wrapped up in bullet proof plastic that requires a chain saw to open a package of batteries.



Carry on.

You are absolutely right.
I think “disposable” plastics are just about the worst thing we’ve done to ourselves and the Earth.

[PatrickMadsen]

Originally Posted by jjrpilot

Good question. I'm not sure I would recommend casein for you.....JUST yet. If you're using Dunlops nylon...and especially a .73 you'll definitely be used to having "flex" in your pick. I actually used .60 Dunlop nylons for my entire life up until a half a year ago.

Casein does not flex...at all. It takes time to get used to stiff picks.

None of CLP's picks have the flex like we're used to in those thin nylon Dunlops...however, both Scott's Brown and Black picks can come in the thickness you're used to give or take a few fractions of a mm.

If you want a brighter sounding pick from Scott, I'd highly recommend his "Black" material and in the thin thickness he offers. Neither the Brown or Black will flex like you're used to but my goodness the tone you get from them is amazing.

I own both the Black and Brown. Brown = darker mellower tone. Black = a little brighter than Brown and has the properties to really punch through.

Hope this helps!

PS: Sorry Scott didn't mean to hijack your Casein thread.

Thanks jjr, I ordered a brown .75 triangle from Scott last week. I trust it'll be a good one. I also have a few of Bill Stokes picks that I think are made from Casein by the looks and description found here. I like them playing by myself but usually go back to a nylon when playing with others to get a brighter sound.

[Charmed Life Picks]

Folks: Sometimes when people see my name on a pick thread, they assume I'm bumping it to stay in the limelight. To avoid that perception, I'm just going to respond to the last five posts in this single post. So please excuse the length.

1) The Kid! As to your question, "Is all casein the same?" Yes, if you're speaking of the faux tortoise designed materials; no, if speaking of other colors. The sad news is that there are only a couple major casein manufacturers left in the world, and those last one will likely disappear in the next decade or two. Don't worry, someone will jump in to do it on a smaller scale, plus there's a lot of inventory out there. As far as I know, the tortoise design casein out there is all made by the same company. Eric at EML is doing some fine work, so there may be minor differences. The other colors of casein picks out there WILL sound different, but not a lot.

2) TNO. The Venue. Yes, it's pretty wonderful. Believe it or not, that raw vid cost me only $20, then I had it professionally edited. If you're ever out this way, give me and hollar and I'll show you around. Here's the place: https://kulakswoodshed.com/ located in North Hollywood, CA (SFV).

3) Silly. Andy, hi. No, Wegen picks are not casein. Easy test. Put one in a glass of for two hours, then lay it out to dry. If it doesn't warp, it ain't casein. Casein HATES water. I've been told by others that Wegen is using Delrin/Acetal, but don't hold me to it. The good news is, you can tell by the striations that these are machined from finished factory shapes, thus the great mechanical properties for minimal $$$. Used to play them a lot before I got into the biz. Does anyone else know? Andy, you should buy some Delrin and try to make some. The stuff is dirt cheap. Thanks.

4) Murph RE: Plastic. I'm with you, dude. It's a huge issue. No matter our politics, we need to unit and clean up the mess. It's bad for all humans. Thanks for your post.

5) Pious, yes, ditto. I won't get on my ecological high horse. I'm far from perfect. I do want to say, though, that as much as I like genuine tortoise picks, I rarely mention them anymore. The animal is highly endangered and there are some wonderful alternatives (several mentioned in this thread) which are legal and come pretty dang close. Nuff said. Thanks, Murph.

6) Patrick. I think we had a chance to chat on the phone, didn't we? That was fun. My favorite part of what I do is not the business side but the people side. I have friends all over the world now, most of whom I will never meet but who have become personal friends. It doesn't get any better than that.

Thanks, Everyone. I hope you find this thread useful and educational. I always feel it's best when you folks in here educate one another, rather than some vendor (me) doing the old soft shoe.

Will deep in when I can.

Carry On,
Memmer

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by TNO

Off topic, but I just have to say I am incredibly jealous Scott that you have such a wonderful venue to perform in!

If you mean Kulak's (kulakswoodshed.com), it's a treasure.

In about 15 minutes, give or take, there's a live video showcase, Julia Othmer and band. 8 to 10 LA time.

And every Monday there's a live-streamed open mic (which Scott's vids probably came from) from about 8 to 10:30.

If you're ever in town on a Monday, show up at 7 and drop your name in the hat (there's usually a line out the door these days).

[ataylor]

I don’t play with a pick much, but I do have a couple of the John Pearse picks. I like them, although I can’t say I love the asymmetric shape. The color is great though. Overall, I tend to prefer the Dunlop Primetone picks, which must be made from a different material.

Since I primarily pick and strum with bare fingers, that’s about the extent of my adventures in picks beyond the trusty Fender Medium

[DesertTwang]

Originally Posted by Murphy Slaw

I'm going to order one of yours and check it out Scott. My first choice is the Bluechip, but I'm getting mad....

The oceans are filling up with garbage again, and mostly plastic. The videos and documentaries make me sick.

Why do simple objects need so much plastic packaging? They don't.

We need to return to renewable packaging and stuff that breaks down quicker. Like paper. Trees are renewable and they just die and fall over anyhow. I've got 30 acres of them falling over all the time.

I'm all for protein based plastic but am fed up with everything being wrapped up in bullet proof plastic that requires a chain saw to open a package of batteries.

Carry on.

Amen to this!

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by ataylor

I don’t play with a pick much, but I do have a couple of the John Pearse picks. I like them, although I can’t say I love the asymmetric shape. The color is great though. Overall, I tend to prefer the Dunlop Primetone picks, which must be made from a different material.

Since I primarily pick and strum with bare fingers, that’s about the extent of my adventures in picks beyond the trusty Fender Medium

I love the quality of the John Pearse tortoise casein Fast Turtles; I just don't get that offset point either. If they changed that one design faux pas, those things would probably sell ten times as much.

Thanks For You Post,
Scott Memmer

[Frogstar]

Originally Posted by Charmed Life Picks

2) TNO. The Venue. Yes, it's pretty wonderful. Believe it or not, that raw vid cost me only $20, then I had it professionally edited. If you're ever out this way, give me and hollar and I'll show you around. Here's the place: https://kulakswoodshed.com/ located in North Hollywood, CA (SFV).

I thought it seemed familiar, one of my favorite nerdy bands (The Doubleclicks) recorded their concert there a few months back.

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by Frogstar

I thought it seemed familiar, one of my favorite nerdy bands (The Doubleclicks) recorded their concert there a few months back.

Frog, yeah, I don't know if there's anything quite like this venue anywhere else in the country. It certainly is unique. Feel very fortunate to have it in my back yard.

sm

[Paddy1951]

Scott, I read your post and thought...OK, I am willing to try one of the less expensive picks you talked about. I ordered and received a Fender Tru-Shell. It is a heavy. I use large triangles, so that one made sense.

The jury is still out. I am trying it out on all of my guitars.

Perhaps, your post will introduce this material to many players and that will keep the material viable.

Thanks for heads up.


Update

My first impression of the Fender Tru Shell was sort of ho-hum.

I decided I should give the pick a good across the board test. I spent two hours playing 6 guitars with the Fender casein pick. I played leads and strummed different tunes. Different guitars, different strings. I listened very carefully. I played loudly and very softly and somewhere in between.

The non- flexibility of the pick required me to slightly modify my playing technique. That wasn't much of a problem, though.

I know some of the custom casein picks are quite a bit thicker. For my purposes, a thicker pick would serve no purpose. Even this mass produced pick gives me what I want- a slightly warmer tone.

This was true on all my guitars.

So, I like the Fender Tru Shell. Being mass produced, it probably isn't as good as the hand produced versions. But it does work. I can afford it. I have a tendency to lose picks. I don't want to lose this one. But if it should happen I wouldn't be out $30-$50.

I did read reviews of the Tru Shell. It gets mixed reviews. Some of the negative points are the results of the nature of the material, I am sure.
I suspect some negative comments were a snobbery thing. Some of those that can afford what the percieve as the best, will minimize products that cost less.

It occurs to me that one possible reason Fender can sell their pick at its price is an economy of scale.

I don't know how long this pick will last. That remains to be seen.

I am going to order a few more.

The Fender Tru Shell is a good place to start for anybody interested in casein picks.