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  #46  
Old 10-22-2009, 06:08 AM
Herb Hunter Herb Hunter is offline
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Duplicate post. I forgot that I had previously posted the same thing a few pages back (post #25).

Last edited by Herb Hunter; 10-22-2009 at 06:41 AM.
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  #47  
Old 10-28-2009, 02:47 AM
rumi11 rumi11 is offline
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Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
A few comments after reading some of the other posts:
IMO
Stereo mic’ing on guitar can be done near field (close to the guitar) and usually is. Most solo steel string guitar recordings you hear were miked in the near field (within about 18" of the guitar). Spaced pairs may be done with completely different mikes with good results.
Maybe we use the terms differently, but I wouldn't call it stereo recording unless you use the mics in stereo, i. e. spaced omni, X/Y, etc. You need a matched pair of exactly the same type (unless you're doing M/S or Decca Tree) for a proper stereo recording. Recording with more than one mic in different spots and panning them while mixing is not stereo recording for me (but quite effective to get a nice stereo image of an acoustic guitar during mixdown).

X/Y in the near field gives quite a narrow image when recording acoustic guitar, for example. I wouldn't use such a setting as my only mics for acoustic guitar. Spaced omnis might be nice as additional mics, along with a main mic for the centre.

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Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
Most phase cancellation problems in spaced pairs are on the higher notes. I hear it most and phase correlation meter is furthest off around the fifth fret first string. That is where to most critically listen when spacing mikes. The low notes are relatively fine over a variety of mike positions.
This seems to be related to what I tried to explain (not very successfully, I admit) about uneven radiation patterns in the near field. If you put two mics in different spots close to the guitar, the radiaton pattern will not be the same in those two spots, and you'll get random phase cancellation, mostly in the higher frequencies. There won't be much cancellation in the lows, because the longer waves 'need more space' to cancel fully, and lower frequencies are radiated more evenly around the guitar (onmi radiation pattern).
The 3-to-1 rule doesn't help to prevent these high frequency cancellations - you simply need to experiment to find usable spots for your mics.

The 3-to-1 rule is for bigger distances, and in that case the rule can help you to avoid low frequency phase cancellation - two waves coming from the same source (more or less a point source), but with different arrival times. You won't have any phase cancellation in higher frequencies with bigger distances (it's physically impossible).

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Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
The 3 to 1 rule is often cited but in regards to recording guitars I have found it does not work out so well. This is likely because the guitar does not produce sound from a small localized area (point source) but from a broad area of surfaces.
This is my experience, too. See above.

The uneven radiation pattern of the guitar is one cause why I would recommend putting the mics further away. The guitar just often doesn't sound even in one spot close to the body - and when the player starts to move the sound will be screwed up pretty fast.

Further away the radiation pattern is more even, you get the sound of the whole guitar, and player movements don't have that big an effect on the sound. BUT you will get more room.

In relation to omni vs. cardioid, omnis sound much more natural and clear and relaxed than cardioids. An acoustic guitar (or any other instrument, but it's quite noticeable on acoustic guitars) always sounds nasal when recorded with cardiod mics, compared to omni. This is due to physics and can't be completely avoided.
If you want to have a natural recording, use real omnis (there are "fake" omnis which are in reality two cardiods - all the switchable mics produce their omni setting that way. Those have the same characteristics as cardioids. Real omnis react to pressure, while all other mic types react to pressure gradients. Again, I don't know the correct terms in English. Real omnis have a cleaner low end reproduction).
Then again, people are so used to that nasal sound of cardioid mics, along with their proximity effect bass boost, that you might find the sound of omnis strange in the beginning. But it's worth to get used to it!
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Last edited by rumi11; 01-05-2010 at 02:58 AM.
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  #48  
Old 10-28-2009, 07:05 AM
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rick-slo rick-slo is offline
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Cool rumi11. Regarding omni mikes my mike budget is bust right now but if you would like to loan me a pair...
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  #49  
Old 10-28-2009, 11:35 AM
anton anton is offline
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Great discussion, i learned alot just reading all the posts. Perhaps one day i will dive more seriously into the black hole that is home recording.



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  #50  
Old 10-29-2009, 11:38 PM
rumi11 rumi11 is offline
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Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
Cool rumi11. Regarding omni mikes my mike budget is bust right now but if you would like to loan me a pair...
Well, California is not exactly just around the corner... But I could make some suggestions when your budget is ready, if you like.
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  #51  
Old 10-29-2009, 11:50 PM
rumi11 rumi11 is offline
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Originally Posted by anton View Post
Great discussion, i learned alot just reading all the posts. Perhaps one day i will dive more seriously into the black hole that is home recording.



Anton
Hey Anton, after a quick look (not much time right now), I must say I really like your site! Good blogs and infos, and nice arrangements and playing. AND nice recordings (at least as far as I can tell, listening to mp3s on headphones)...

Best, Rumi
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