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  #31  
Old 08-20-2009, 07:12 PM
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ljguitar ljguitar is offline
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Originally Posted by b3l5tele View Post
What works for me is repetition, repetition, repetition, and then repeat again.
Hi b3l5tele...
Hey you nearly snuck that by us - Hello and welcome to the group. We are glad you joined the discussions...
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  #32  
Old 08-21-2009, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ljguitar View Post
Hi Hendra...
I play them for others, regularly.

Not only do my gigging partner and I have a weekly gig at a local coffee house, I have a once a month Guitar Society meeting, and I teach many of my arrangements to students. Periodic use is a great way to remember things...

Hope this helps...

Hi LJ,

Well that's exactly my problem. I don't either perform nor teach (don't think I am good enough to be one). So my guitar playing routine is mostly learning new songs by ear. Once I've nailed it, I normally move on to new songs (and forget the one I've learned earlier http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...cons/icon9.gif ) This morning base on some AGF friends input, I have established some must play fingerstyle pieces in my practice routine. How this will help me remembering. Thanks..
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  #33  
Old 08-21-2009, 07:35 PM
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So my guitar playing routine is mostly learning new songs by ear. Once I've nailed it, I normally move on to new songs (and forget the one I've learned earlier.
You already learn by ear? So simply tab the songs for your own "archive" and you'll be able to relearn them quickly whenever you need to.
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  #34  
Old 08-21-2009, 07:43 PM
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Usually just a lot of repetition. However since once you know a piece well you (at least I do) tend to zip through it without much mental thought to the mechanics (hopefully you still think about interpretation). Some of the songs I remember the best are ones I learned, partially forgot, relearned, partially forgot, relearned, and so on. Each time I relearn I am working on the mechanics again.
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  #35  
Old 08-21-2009, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by mmmaak View Post
You already learn by ear? So simply tab the songs for your own "archive" and you'll be able to relearn them quickly whenever you need to.
Hi Mmmaak,

Normal accompaniment for song played fingersytle like Dan Fogelberg, Jim Croce, John Denver and those classic acoustic rock etc. I should be able to figure our by ear quite easily. But for a full fingerstyle arrangement, it require much-much hardwork. Just never write it down (guess I love the fretboard better than pen and paper). Yes I agree with you, I think I should do that before I started loosing out all those hardwork due to lack of practice.
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  #36  
Old 08-21-2009, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Hendra View Post
Just never write it down (guess I love the fretboard better than pen and paper).
I think all of us love the fretboard better
But it doesn't have to be "pen and paper". I usually tab direct into the computer (free software like PowerTab or commercial ones like TablEdit). It's really fast once you get used to it (the standard notation takes much longer, but you don't need to do that if you don't want to).

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Originally Posted by Hendra View Post
Yes I agree with you, I think I should do that before I started loosing out all those hardwork due to lack of practice.
That's what happened to the other 90% of songs that I *used* to know
These days I keep an entire directory of transcriptions of songs that I'm working on. Due to my poor attention span, I've only managed to complete one (Matilda), though
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  #37  
Old 08-23-2009, 02:00 AM
Me&MyGuitar Me&MyGuitar is offline
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Originally Posted by TBman View Post
I have the same problem (I'm 54 btw), but after playing a song a 100,000 times I get bored too and move on to something else. I guess playing the tune once or twice a day would help in memorization.
i'm almost the same age and have the same problem.
But i think that telling us our age is a very nice way to feel part of this community and share the same "guitar-season of life" experiences; i don't think that the more you are aged the more you will forget fingerings. If you rotate the playing of the songs you wont forget them, the problem is when we are talking about dozens of very complex fingerpicking patterns (like Tommy Emmanuel pieces)........Maybe if you tab by yourself a song you will remember it much more easily, but I have almost completed the tabbing of a song of Tommy Emmanuel, "One Mint Julep" as played by TE on Live One album (which AFAIK has never tabbed before ) and i am still far from being able to remember and play it!
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  #38  
Old 10-16-2009, 11:28 AM
wooki97 wooki97 is offline
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you cannot fully remember a song forever. sorry.
i play classical guitar and heres my blog www.chrisliang.com with tabs. free.

some songs i have come across with is lengthy. 80 unique bars for example. no way a human brain can remember UNLESS you keep practicing. over and over again. during watching tv. during watching sports. whichever possible. i have short term memory. i could play a song one day and totally forget it next week. so i try to play that darn song constantly.
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  #39  
Old 10-16-2009, 12:01 PM
mmmaak mmmaak is offline
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Originally Posted by wooki97 View Post
you cannot fully remember a song forever. sorry.
i play classical guitar and heres my blog www.chrisliang.com with tabs. free.

some songs i have come across with is lengthy. 80 unique bars for example. no way a human brain can remember UNLESS you keep practicing. over and over again. during watching tv. during watching sports. whichever possible. i have short term memory. i could play a song one day and totally forget it next week. so i try to play that darn song constantly.
80? I just finished transcribing a song with 151 (unique bars)
But yes, constant repetition is key, of course. I'm very guilty of *not* doing that, resulting in a very fragmented repertoire.

(BTW, some promotional spree you have going on there. 12 links in 12 posts )
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Last edited by mmmaak; 10-16-2009 at 12:21 PM.
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  #40  
Old 10-16-2009, 12:14 PM
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It's a little hard for me to explain, but I think that retaining info is about context. The more pieces you have memorized and related to an overall body of intuitive and learned guitar knowledge, the easier it is to retain a new piece.
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  #41  
Old 10-16-2009, 12:19 PM
xanatos xanatos is offline
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From my classical piano experience, I would suggest this: memorize from the start.

If you learn a piece FIRST from the music, there's this subconcious muscle memory that helps you remember it. But this is done very subconsciously, and I find I have trouble recalling these pieces down the road.

If you memorize FIRST, then you're forced to be more conscious thought put into recognizing patterns/sequence.

In my experience, the classical pieces I can remember to this day are the ones I memorized from the start.
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  #42  
Old 10-16-2009, 01:15 PM
Christian Reno Christian Reno is offline
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Originally Posted by mmmaak View Post
I've heard it said that the difference between a good player and a pro is one practises till they don't make mistakes, the other practises till they *can't* make mistakes....
I like that - and I think it is pretty accurate. I am getting a little long in the tooth (as others have mentioned they are), and it is harder to remember many things.

I don't play out much any longer, but when I do, I take at least a week (4 hours a day) to practice a 2 hour set. I play strictly fingerstyle solo guitar stuff. Without that amount of practice, I likely wouldn't be able to remember every segment in every piece I planned to perform.

I think it also has a lot to do with how complex your repertoire is.
If I were playing accompaniment for a singer, or playing with 2 or 3 other people on the stage, it wouldn't take much practice.
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  #43  
Old 10-16-2009, 01:40 PM
mmmaak mmmaak is offline
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I like that - and I think it is pretty accurate. I am getting a little long in the tooth (as others have mentioned they are), and it is harder to remember many things.
ahhh, now I remember exactly what it was I heard:

"A good player practises till he gets it right; a great player, till he can't get it wrong."

So I stand corrected (by myself )
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  #44  
Old 10-16-2009, 02:36 PM
Kevin Gallagher Kevin Gallagher is offline
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Practice is the best cement for the mind when it comes to musical selections and pieces. Too many times, we play our favorite pieces over and over again and fail to play the pieces that fall down our repertoire list, but may be some our listeners' favorites.

Sorry, but I disagree that you cannot fully remember a song forever. I do agree, though, with the quote above that states, "A good musician practices untl they get it right, but a great musician practices until he can;t get it wrong." Work it into yourself and you'll know when you truly know it and that only happens with true discipline to play it through boredom and monotony and through distraction.

Play them a thousand times and then you're just getting started with the process that makes them stick. Memory does begin to fail when we get up in years, it's just a fact of life, but when things are deeper than second nature and are a part of us, they will always be relatively easy to recall for performance.

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Last edited by Kevin Gallagher; 10-16-2009 at 02:41 PM.
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  #45  
Old 10-16-2009, 02:37 PM
tplank tplank is offline
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Originally Posted by wooki97 View Post
you cannot fully remember a song forever. sorry.
I think I disagree. I’m not sure. I’ll tell you about something I experienced for whatever profit it has. I think we are moving into the area of neurology though.

I played guitar when I was young. It wasn’t my primary instrument, but I was a decent enough player. Walked away from music after a concert and never looked back. Or not at least till about three years ago. After 25 years away, I bought a guitar and started a journey back. It has been a brutal process with old carpal tunneled up hands that don’t want to cooperate and a lack of the time it take to make real progress.

Well, I had one song in particular that I wanted to remember. The music is long gone, but it was one of the few things I genuinely wanted to play from my past. There was no hope. I could remember a few bars here and there...but it was pointless. I gave up.

Then one day, after playing about a year, I thought about it and tried it...you saw it coming...perfect recall. I guess it was buried down in there somewhere. I needed a little work to re-connect some of the synapses...and viola. It was a weird experience, but I do think enough repetition etches things very deeply.
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