Drilling/Reaming an End-Pin Jack Hole?

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by cheer tunes

My bad, upon further inspection I was able to increase the about of threaded jack buy further unscrewing the interior section of the jack.

I can't even remember the number of times I've diagnosed "plug in problems" with end pin jacks that have been installed so the inner barrel doesn't extend far enough so the 1/4" plug can be inserted correctly. Last week I corrected a jack for a Baggs M1 system that was just installed "professionally" by the local "big box" guitar store. The inner barrel was recessed inside the strap button flange by a full 1/4" Who trains these employees?

I walked someone else through the process of correcting the same thing done with a Fishman jack a couple of states away from me. When the problem was described I stopped him after the first sentence and told him what was wrong. It's such a common malady with end pin jacks that I'm surprised that the need for the barrel to be positioned correctly isn't stated in large bold type in the installation instructions. That might help to prevent a lot of problems that give end pin jacks a bad name.

[murrmac123]

The definitive explanation on endpin installation is to be found HERE

Scroll down halfway to see David Collins' post.

[DenverSteve]

Originally Posted by jackstrat

...1. Drill a 1/4" diameter hole with a sharp brad point bit.....2. Enlarge the hole to 1/2" using a sharp standard drill bit.
Period, end of story....

This for me as well. If there's no end-pin hole then that's what a tapered reamer is for. If there already is an end-pin hole, you already have a pilot hole and only need to enlarge it. The jack is not tapered so no taper is needed. Simple drill bit is all that's necessary but I would make sure it's new or sharp.

[murrmac123]

Originally Posted by DenverSteve

If there's no end-pin hole then that's what a tapered reamer is for.

If there is no endpin hole then you create one using a drill, not a reamer.

Once the hole has been created, then you can use the reamer.

[mirwa]

For creating a hole in a guitar, be it for an endpin, machine head etc, a reamer is IMO best, be it a tapered reamer, stepped reamer or what have you.

Drills themselves are kind of inappropriate for fine wood work, the clearance angle and angle of twist make for a hole that typically displays tear out, tear out is bad enough in a guitar being built, its even worse in a guitar that has been finished

Steve

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by mirwa

For creating a hole in a guitar, be it for an endpin, machine head etc, a reamer is IMO best, be it a tapered reamer, stepped reamer or what have you.

Drills themselves are kind of inappropriate for fine wood work, the clearance angle and angle of twist make for a hole that typically displays tear out, tear out is bad enough in a guitar being built, its even worse in a guitar that has been finished

Steve

Murray's point is that drill bits, of some configuration, are a common tools to create holes in materials. Reamers, of some configuration, are used to enlarge and shape existing holes: they do not create holes. With your knowledge and experience, I'm sure you are aware of that and that it is a terminology thing.

Certainly, creating an undersized hole using a drill followed by the use of a reamer will produce a straight, smooth-walled, accurately sized hole. However, I'd suggest that there really don't need to be close tolerances on the fit between an endpin jack and the hole in the end of a guitar. Consequently, a drill can well be used to create the hole to sufficient tolerance. Any drill bit configuration and technique that produces a clean, no-tear-out hole is sufficient. Finishing the hole with a reamer is certainly an option.

[mirwa]

All good, i actually was not addressing his comment.

I find any hole started with a drill bit has tear out, in a perfect world its exactly as per your reply, the tear out is small enough to be encompassed by a washer or removed by subsequent reaming.

I use a step drill when i do it, heres a hole being drilled into the side of a uke with a stepped reamer, so very fragile and splits real easy





Endpin situation



If the step reamer is not quite the perfect size,i follow up with a machine reamer, i use these as i have every size from 1-15mm in .1mm increments

[murrmac123]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

Murray's point is that drill bits, of some configuration, are a common tools to create holes in materials. Reamers, of some configuration, are used to enlarge and shape existing holes: they do not create holes.

Thank you, Charles ... you have explained with your usual crystal clear clarity exactly what my somewhat too terse post was attempting to say.

I have found the thread quite interesting ... I see that nobody uses the method which I have developed and use all the time , and which IMHO is the best. I do realize of course that everybody thinks their own method is the best ...

I will be fitting a K&K next week, and will attempt to take some pictures to explain my approach.

[redir]

It's a ten year old thread too!

Step drills work just fine but as mentioned the jacks are a hair smaller then 1/2in. You could use heat shrink tubing or something to thicken the jack up but if players wear straps, and who doesn't on stage' that's a lot of wiggle back and forth which can cause problems.

The reamer is clearly the best tool. I use it after step drilling up.

[JayBee1404]

Originally Posted by redir

It's a ten year old thread too!

Step drills work just fine but as mentioned the jacks are a hair smaller then 1/2in. You could use heat shrink tubing or something to thicken the jack up but if players wear straps, and who doesn't on stage' that's a lot of wiggle back and forth which can cause problems.

The reamer is clearly the best tool. I use it after step drilling up.

The best bet AFAIC is to drill the hole 15/32”. Then the fit of the Jack is far closer and there’s less clearance for on-stage wiggle!

Mine are all done that size, the oldest one has had the jack in there for 17 years, never had any problem with any of them.

The usual disclaimers apply......IMHO, YMMV etc.

[murrmac123]

Originally Posted by JayBee1404

The best bet AFAIC is to drill the hole 15/32”. Then the fit of the Jack is far closer and there’s less clearance for on-stage wiggle!

Absolutely right, John

If I can be nitpickingly pedantic for a moment, I would just point out that 15/32" is indeed the nearest imperial size, but technically the correct size hole is 12mm.

These jack sockets are manufactured to metric standards rather than to imperial standards, but the difference between 15/32" and 12 mm is so small as to be insignificant in practical terms.

[JayBee1404]

Originally Posted by murrmac123

Absolutely right, John

If I can be nitpickingly pedantic for a moment, I would just point out that 15/32" is indeed the nearest imperial size, but technically the correct size hole is 12mm.

These jack sockets are manufactured to metric standards rather than to imperial standards, but the difference between 15/32" and 12 mm is so small as to be insignificant in practical terms.

Ha! I still convert ‘the new money’ to pounds shillings and pence!

[murrmac123]

Originally Posted by JayBee1404

Ha! I still convert ‘the new money’ to pounds shillings and pence!

Don't get me started ... I was just this afternoon expounding my theory that the horrendous inflation which we have experienced over the last (almost) 50 years is due totally to the changeover to decimalisation in 1971.

Ovenight, IMHO , the British currency just seemed to lose all value ... shopkeepers hiked prices up to unprecedented levels which would have sparked a revolution in the pre-decimal era. But the public , in toto, unfortunately did not have the nous to see what had been foisted upon them.

Apologies for semi-political thread drift ... now back to your scheduled program.

[JayBee1404]

[redir]

Originally Posted by JayBee1404

The best bet AFAIC is to drill the hole 15/32”. Then the fit of the Jack is far closer and there’s less clearance for on-stage wiggle!

Mine are all done that size, the oldest one has had the jack in there for 17 years, never had any problem with any of them.

The usual disclaimers apply......IMHO, YMMV etc.

So do you glue in a dowel in order to drill the hole then? I have such a bit for guitars that either have no end pin or ones that have the screwed in end pin but for tapered endpins I find it easier to just step drill them up and then ream them out.