Looking for feedback/advice on new tuning machines for my Martin 0000

Jarlaxle · #1 09-21-2018, 09:33 AM

Have gone back and forth but think I'm finally ready to pull the trigger on some new tuning machines for my Martin. The stock, sealed tuners have never really done it for me. I have narrowed it down to these three, would like to hear from anyone that has personal experience. They are all so similar in form that its really about use (smoother the better) and minimizing the need for major surgery/drilling on the head stock. I don't think any of these are a straight drop in replacement so I recognize some work will have to be done, just want to keep it to a bare minimum.

Here is a pic of the current tuning machines.

And here are the candidates:

Schertler Tuning Keys

Schaller GrandTune

Gotoh SXN510

I am leaning toward the Gotoh 510's based on Gotoh's reputation but not sure if their open back tuners perform as well as the sealed ones.

Thanks for any feedback you can provide!

Paddy1951 · #2 09-21-2018, 09:52 AM

I have a set of Grand Tunes on an OM body that came with generic open geared tuners. They are high quality and work well.

You did not say which tuners are on your guitar at present. If you are absolutely set on an open geared replacement, the Shaller Grand Tunes are a good choice

If you want the absolute smoothest and precise tuner you can get, then go with the Gotoh 510 enclosed tuners. IMHO no open back tuner comes close to the smoothness and precision tuning of the 510s. I can say that having the Grand Tunes and having played Martins with the Waverlys. Just no comparison.

Four of the six guitars I own have 510s. I may put 510s on one of the other two.
Form follows function. Do what pleases you.

Jarlaxle · #3 09-21-2018, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paddy1951

I have a set of Grand Tunes on an OM body that came with generic open geared tuners. They are high quality and work well.

You did not say which tuners are on your guitar at present. If you are absolutely set on an open geared replacement, the Shaller Grand Tunes are a good choice

If you want the absolute smoothest and precise tuner you can get, then go with the Gotoh 510 enclosed tuners. IMHO no open back tuner comes close to the smoothness and precision tuning of the 510s. I can say that having the Grand Tunes and having played Martins with the Waverlys. Just no comparison.

Four of the six guitars I own have 510s. I may put 510s on one of the other two.
Form follows function. Do what pleases you.

Thanks, updated my original post to include a pic of the current tuners. For me the enclosed Gotoh 510's look great on a Taylor but don't sync up with the more traditional Martin headstock.

I guess I am just drawn to the traditional look of the open tuners.

Paddy1951 · #4 09-21-2018, 10:01 AM

Three of my guitars with 510s are Martins. What puts most people off are standard buttons. LMI sells ebony buttons that have a more traditonal look for the 510s.

But if you gotta have them, (butter beans) you gotta have them.

Stevien · #5 09-21-2018, 10:55 AM

All the open back tuners will require redrilling, as well as leaving an "outline" of the old tuner. I believe Gotoh (maybe not the 510s) makes a closed tuner that would fit without the need for drilling. They have a single screw in the 6 o'clock position. But again, it still may leave a ghost of an outline. If you ever plan on reselling the guitar, my advice would be to leave it alone, as this procedure reduces sellability.
Steve

Paddy1951 · #6 09-21-2018, 11:14 AM

The tuners that are on your guitar are Gotoh 360s. They are spec'd out differently than the standard Gotoh 360s. The Martins have a longer shaft and collar. The standard, current 360s will not work with your guitar. These tuners have an offset tang. No other tuner I am aware of is configured this way
You will have to fill the single screw hole that helps anchor the tuner if you want to replace these tuners with the standard 510 ( 6 o'clock mounting screw) new tuner.
If you go with the open backs, it will require drilling 2 holes per tuner. You may also also need to modify the hole the shaft and collar goes through.

ripdotcom · #7 09-21-2018, 11:25 AM

I am a sucker for open gear butterbean, Waverly, Gotoh, or even grover but those Gotoh butterbeans look real nice

Jarlaxle · #8 09-21-2018, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paddy1951

The tuners that are on your guitar are Gotoh 360s. They are spec'd out differently than the standard Gotoh 360s. The Martins have a longer shaft and collar. The standard, current 360s will not work with your guitar. These tuners have an offset tang. No other tuner I am aware of is configured this way
You will have to fill the single screw hole that helps anchor the tuner if you want to replace these tuners with the standard 510 ( 6 o'clock mounting screw) new tuner.
If you go with the open backs, it will require drilling 2 holes per tuner. You may also also need to modify the hole the shaft and collar goes through.

Thanks for the feedback. Do you (or anyone else) have a feel for which of these options would required the least modification of the headstock? I am confident the shop I will use can patch the old screw hole and drill the new ones, I just don't want to have to ream out the headstock too much.

lowrider · #9 09-21-2018, 03:07 PM

Nobody sees you tuners, not even you, when you are playing. I think if you have to patch holes, it will de-value your very nice guitar by ''upgrading'' your tuners.

What about ''upgrading'' just your buttons?

drive-south · #10 09-21-2018, 04:28 PM

Check out Hipshot tuners with their universal mounting plates. No drilling required.

Paddy1951 · #11 09-21-2018, 05:09 PM

If you are working with a good luthier or guitar tech, see what he/she suggests.

FYI... Those original tuners are pretty good tuners. You might want to take more time, get more information, before making any changes. You might even talk to somebody at Martin.

You have an excellent guitar. Best to move cautiously.

Earl49 · #12 09-21-2018, 07:28 PM

What Paddy said..... I have owned four Martin guitars and never felt the need to upgrade or swap out the OEM tuning machines.

I currently have three guitars now that came with Gotoh 510 sealed tuners (21:1 ratio) and they are sweet. I don't know about whether they are drop in or not.

Jarlaxle · #13 09-22-2018, 10:22 AM

So I goofed up. I thought the pic I found online was of the same tuners I have, turns out I was wrong. On mine the screw is right at the bottom. Thanks and sorry for the mistake. Hoping this might make swapping to other tuners a little less impractical.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AhZn5leeNbQghj73m8lFHevGD0ZV

Paddy1951 · #14 09-22-2018, 10:48 AM

These are the Ping made Martin tuners. They usually put these on the 15 and 16 series guitars.
As far as putting the open backed tuners on your guitar and using this existing anchor screw hole... well I am going to say maybe. The spacing centers on the open backs are not all the same. At a casual glance, they look the same. A fraction of an inch can make a difference. A difference between a clean conversion and a sloppy one.

The specs for most of the tuners can be found on line. Stewmac does a good job of showing specs.

Again, move slowly in this.

brianmay · #15 09-22-2018, 12:05 PM

I'd be really rather shocked if Martin sold a guitar with anything on it that could be considered sub-standard. Particularly the only moving parts and then a Lifetime Warranty for you guys across the Pond . . .

I've 'only' got two 28 Series guitars and the machine heads are absolutely faultless.

Just my 2 cents worth . . .