Martin HD28V bridge differences

[steveyam]

I understand that the bridge on a Martin HD28V is different to 'normal' D28 models. In particular, the saddle is glued in - that right? I have not seen one let alone held one. For the purpose of fitting a UST, is it possible to remove the saddle? has anyone done this and has real experience to share please? Thanks.

Added:

Actually, I've just googled a photo, and I can see that it's longer than normal, and sits in an open ended slot. What about the width (thickness)? is that a weird size too, I'm wondering if one of the two std size USTs will fit in there properly?

[el_kabong]

Steve:

Yes, so far as I understand it, they are glued in. My very talented luthier (Mark Tossman in the Seattle area) replaced mine with ivory...which was a very nice improvement. He showed me the very floppy old one he'd removed...unbelievable really.

When asked about further changes...supposing I might want to raise it in the future, he made it sound rather simple, though that's a talented luthier talking. This isn't a "drop in" saddle and I don't think I'd want to do it myself

By the way, I'm planning on having him install a K&K pure western mini very soon, which I think is a much better choice in any regard, but especially with this bridge/saddle design.

my 2 cents - scott

[steveyam]

Originally Posted by el_kabong

Steve:

Yes, so far as I understand it, they are glued in. My very talented luthier (Mark Tossman in the Seattle area) replaced mine with ivory...which was a very nice improvement. He showed me the very floppy old one he'd removed...unbelievable really.

When asked about further changes...supposing I might want to raise it in the future, he made it sound rather simple, though that's a talented luthier talking. This isn't a "drop in" saddle and I don't think I'd want to do it myself

By the way, I'm planning on having him install a K&K pure western mini very soon, which I think is a much better choice in any regard, but especially with this bridge/saddle design.

my 2 cents - scott

Thanks for that Scott. Without going out of your way, if you get chance, ask him how he got the old one out? heat? prised it out? melt the glue somehow? I have been asked to fit a UST to one and any help would be appreciated. I guess I can take a look at the guitar in question at some point (I'm going to do work on the guy's other guitar) but any extra info appreciated. And thanks for that so far, thanks.

[HHP]

It can be done but not as easily as with a drop in saddle. Probably not a home DIY project. Martin did make a version called the HD-28VE that had a mic/undersaddle pickup but they were only out for a short time. I believe the new Retro series reverts back to the drop in saddle instead of the vintage through saddle.

[el_kabong]

Originally Posted by steveyam

Thanks for that Scott. Without going out of your way, if you get chance, ask him how he got the old one out? heat? prised it out? melt the glue somehow? I have been asked to fit a UST to one and any help would be appreciated. I guess I can take a look at the guitar in question at some point (I'm going to do work on the guy's other guitar) but any extra info appreciated. And thanks for that so far, thanks.

Steve:

I'm guessing a bit of heat, but I'll check in with him for you and get back to you on that. - scott

[steveyam]

Originally Posted by HHP

It can be done but not as easily as with a drop in saddle. Probably not a home DIY project. Martin did make a version called the HD-28VE that had a mic/undersaddle pickup but they were only out for a short time. I believe the new Retro series reverts back to the drop in saddle instead of the vintage through saddle.

I'm a tech with 40 years experience, though there's always a new, previously un-encountered job around the corner. So yes, it's new ground for me, but not a home DIY project, I have a fair bit experience and ability and a few grands worth of tools and equipment.

You said it can be done - you've done one then? where you coming from there?

[Zigeuner]

I have a 1962 D-28. It has the early style long saddle that was originally glued in. Sometimes they come loose by themselves but if it's stubborn and you wish to remove it for some reason, an application of heat on just the saddle with a heat lamp will work. I use a heat lamp with a slotted wooden (MDF) shield covered with aluminum foil over the top of the guitar so that the saddle is the only part showing. They generally come out with gently prying with padded pliers when the heat gets up to around 200 Deg. F.

I also remove bridges the same way. I use a shield that is just large enough to cover the bridge. Once they get warm, they will come off with barely a nudge with a wood chisel.

As everybody knows, Martin went to a drop in saddle in early 1965. I'm sure that there were numerous broken bridges due to people attempting to remove the saddles with pliers and side cutters without any heat.

The last time I had the saddle out of my D-28 was about 20 years ago. I put it back in with two drops of Cyanoacrylate (Super Glue) and it hasn't moved since.

As with all things, if you can do it without damaging the instrument, go ahead. Otherwise, get some assistance from a qualified person.

Happy Trails!

[HHP]

Originally Posted by steveyam

I'm a tech with 40 years experience, though there's always a new, previously un-encountered job around the corner. So yes, it's new ground for me, but not a home DIY project, I have a fair bit experience and ability and a few grands worth of tools and equipment.

You said it can be done - you've done one then? where you coming from there?

I haven't but Martin has. See attached for HD-28V with standard Fishman ellipse pickup using and undersaddle and the vintage style through saddle.I take that its been done as an indication that it can be done.

http://www.elderly.com/new_instruments/items/HD28VE.htm

[Ben-Had]

That's a tricky job requiring special tools and jigs. I would go with the K&K Pure mini as recommended by another poster. It will sound much better.

[Brackett Instruments]

What year is it? The saddles on the "V's" haven't been glued in for several years, the slot is just wider. Installing a UST is no big deal. Just remove the thickness of the UST from the bottom of the saddle. The longer ends of the saddle are flush with the top of the bridge at the edges. If you need to lower the action further work on the top of the saddle. This picture (From Elderly's) looks like an old style glued in saddle, but if you look closely you can see the round ends of the slot.


On the glued in saddles you see the square ends of the saddle, instead of the round ends of the slot. If it's a glued in saddle you can remove it by heating with a soldering iron. Route the slot deeper, so the slot actually has ends, and make a new saddle for the UST.

[steveyam]

Originally Posted by Brackett Instruments

What year is it? The saddles on the "V's" haven't been glued in for several years, the slot is just wider. Installing a UST is no big deal. Just remove the thickness of the UST from the bottom of the saddle. The longer ends of the saddle are flush with the top of the bridge at the edges. If you need to lower the action further work on the top of the saddle. This picture (From Elderly's) looks like an old style glued in saddle, but if you look closely you can see the round ends of the slot.

On the glued in saddles you see the square ends of the saddle, instead of the round ends of the slot. If it's a glued in saddle you can remove it by heating with a soldering iron. Route the slot deeper, so the slot actually has ends, and make a new saddle for the UST.

Many thanks for your reply.

The guy told me it IS glued in.

Not quite understanding your procedure re taking material from the bottom of the saddle, I'm thinking you cannot take that material off all the way along the saddle - let me explain what I'm thinking. Assuming the bottom of the saddle is flat all the way along, and sits in a flat slot (with no pre-made piezo slot - is that the case?), I'm going to have to take a 'piezo sized' section out of the saddle, leaving the saddles' two outermost end sections deeper by a distance fractionally less than the thickness of the (soft) piezo. Otherwise, when you drop the saddle back in on top of the piezo, those two outer edges are going to be standing up off the bottom of the slot by the piezo thickness (about 2.2mm), with an unsightly gap - see my point?

[el_kabong]

That's the sort of UST fitting problem I'd expect with this type of saddle. Overall, they are wider..having those extended/tapered ends. The other complication I'd expect is ensuring that your piezo slot is appropriately centered and, as you note, has just the right depth for the ends to seat properly.

All the more reason to talk your client into a K&K

I'll try to give my luthier a call today, if you still think that would be useful.

[Tone Gopher]

Another alternative is to remove the saddle, inlay wood on either end of the slot, and make it a drop-in slot. If you have to retain The Look, inlay bone at either end to make it look like a continuous saddle (basically cut away the part of the existing saddle that needs to become the drop-in).

[steveyam]

Originally Posted by Zigeuner

Sometimes they come loose by themselves but if it's stubborn and you wish to remove it for some reason, an application of heat on just the saddle with a heat lamp will work. I use a heat lamp with a slotted wooden (MDF) shield covered with aluminum foil over the top of the guitar so that the saddle is the only part showing. They generally come out with gently prying with padded pliers when the heat gets up to around 200 Deg. F.

I also remove bridges the same way. I use a shield that is just large enough to cover the bridge. Once they get warm, they will come off with barely a nudge with a wood chisel.

Hi, any chance of photos of these two heat guards - a picture tells a thousand words! Thanks.

[steveyam]

Originally Posted by Tone Gopher

Another alternative is to remove the saddle, inlay wood on either end of the slot, and make it a drop-in slot. If you have to retain The Look, inlay bone at either end to make it look like a continuous saddle (basically cut away the part of the existing saddle that needs to become the drop-in).

Hmm. You're making a relatively simple job into a complicated one there! It's no problem to file a section from the underside of the saddle to accept the piezo.