Matching Mics to Audio Interface

[SprintBob]

Originally Posted by runamuck

In your recording I hear a raspy high end that is certainly not being caused by your mics ( unless they're broken), and that I doubt is being caused by the Scarlett. So I suspect you need more room treatment than the gobos you're using.

BTW - What are the gobos made from?

My Gobo is a set of two hinged panels, fabric over rigid fiberglass.

[SprintBob]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi SB

I'm taking a 'practical' approach.

There are better preamps than Scarlett out there. They also cost substantially more.

Scarlett, and a long list of other preamps, get good reviews from average players and listeners, because they produce GOOD RESULTS.

If you are playing/saving/dispensing your music on SoundCloud, YouTube, FaceBook, Zoom etc. then people are likely consuming it on their phones, tablets, and computers.

None of the common ways MOST people listen to our music is maximizing the current level of capability of your gear.

Only very picky people will hear & note any difference, even if you are using a $10,000 handbuilt preamp with $20,000 mics.

By the way…the one or two who might hear/take note of the difference will be making mental adjustments to your inferior results…my use of the word inferior is intended as irony.

If it matters to you, then by all means spend more, and take the time to learn to operate/maximize another piece of gear.

Larry,

Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate and understand your point of view.

Cheers,

Bob

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by SprintBob

Larry,

Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate and understand your point of view.

Cheers,

Bob

Hi Bob
Thanks for being patient with the mental wanderings of an old guitar player!

[runamuck]

Originally Posted by SprintBob

My Gobo is a set of two hinged panels, fabric over rigid fiberglass.

I just listened to your track again. Nice playing by the way.

What I missed the first time was that it's not just the high frequencies that are harsh. I can't put my finger on it and now it doesn't sound like the gobos or the mics or mic pre but something more like strings buzzing.

I'm listening to your track through headphones - AT 7506s - which exacerbate the highs. But it's not the headphones, it's something in your recording, I'm pretty sure. But no one else has commented on it so...

Do you hear anything like I'm hearing?

[SprintBob]

Originally Posted by runamuck

I just listened to your track again. Nice playing by the way.

What I missed the first time was that it's not just the high frequencies that are harsh. I can't put my finger on it and now it doesn't sound like the gobos or the mics or mic pre but something more like strings buzzing.

I'm listening to your track through headphones - AT 7506s - which exacerbate the highs. But it's not the headphones, it's something in your recording, I'm pretty sure. But no one else has commented on it so...

Do you hear anything like I'm hearing?

The music flows from my right hand and the continuously evolving journey (at least for me) is controlling my attack and dynamics. I typically play with thumbpick and Alaska Piks on my middle and ring fingers and that could be a factor because if I play with my natural nails, I seem to get a softer treble response.

[SprintBob]

Originally Posted by KarenB

I have a Summit Audio 2BA-221 Preamp. It has a "dial in the amount you want" tube. It's lovely sounding. I can definately hear an improvement when I use this preamp rather than the pres of my Focusrite Clarett 4 Pre.

Thanks Karen, very helpful.

[SprintBob]

Originally Posted by jim1960

If SprintBob went from the Scarlett 2i4 USB to a high end converter, there would be an audible difference. I just want to make that point in case anyone gets the impression converters don't really matter. Converters do impart a sound and vibe, although, at a certain level it just becomes about preferences. The Scarlett 2i4 USB isn't at that level but I think a preamp is going to provide more bang for the buck and you don't have to bang too many bucks for a great preamp on the used market.

I just took a look on Reverb and there's a Sebatron AXIS 200VU on sale for $1300. The seller will entertain offers. I own one and it's an excellent and versatile preamp. It sells brand new for $1850, shipped. If I were in the market for a preamp, I'd try to get that seller down to about $1050-1100. That preamp will make a bigger improvement in your sound than an interface in that price range.

Jim,

If you were to insert a tool like the Sebatron into the recording chain and still retain the Scarlett, at that point the Scarlett is only handling the job of the A/D conversion if the signal from the Sebatron goes through the Scarlet as a line input, correct?

Thanks again.

Cheers,

Bob

[pipe dreamer]

Originally Posted by SprintBob

Jim,

If you were to insert a tool like the Sebatron into the recording chain and still retain the Scarlett, at that point the Scarlett is only handling the job of the A/D conversion if the signal from the Sebatron goes through the Scarlet as a line input, correct?

Thanks again.

Cheers,

Bob

Something I became aware of when using outboard preamps is that the “line” input of cheaper interface is not a true line input. Therefore the mic pre of the interface still contributes to the signal/sound.

It bothered me until I got an interface with true line inputs (presonus quantum)

‘Tbh’ I’m not sure I would have know in a blind test, but you know..it can bother us and lead towards purchases in the never ending rabbit hole ��

Beautiful playing by the way ..

[ChuckS]

I try to have my gear's 'quality' level in the same ballpark. So when I get something new I use my best pieces of existing gear as the benchmark. Of course, that can place you in a never ending pattern of circling up. Another approach is to lay out a general plan of where you want to get to, and upgrade over time based on that eventual goal. For example, do you want to put your money mainly into a 2 channel system for acoustic guitar, or do you need more channels? Does it need to be somewhat portable or not? What gear do you think you'd like to have as external pieces (i.e. mics, preamps, ADC, DAC, headphone amp, etc) and what do you think you'd want to have integrated (audio interface with preamps, ADCs, dsp, usb interface, DACs, headphone amp, etc)? Having external gear gives lots of flexibility (upgrading, having multiple of the same type to pick from) and doesn't go obsolete as quick as an audio interface that has analog and digital functions in the same device. However, external gear ends up with more cabling and space requirements.

If you get external preamps you will most likely want to upgrade from your Scarlett audio interface at some point (getting dedicated line inputs and better conversion). If you update your audio interface and use its ADCs you might want to get an interface that also has digital inputs (that would allow adding external ADC in the future).

But, it all depends if all this has benefit to you. Does the pursuit of gear give you some pleasure (is it part of your hobby and of interest to you), or do you want to set your limits based on some level audible acceptability? There's no right or wrong answer.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by SprintBob

Jim,

If you were to insert a tool like the Sebatron into the recording chain and still retain the Scarlett, at that point the Scarlett is only handling the job of the A/D conversion if the signal from the Sebatron goes through the Scarlet as a line input, correct?

Thanks again.

Cheers,

Bob

Well yes and no maybe it does not matter ?????

From Focusrite support site ... so No it does not take the pre circuits Out if you use the Combi XLR 1/4 inch connectors but maybe not a big deal

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by SprintBob

Jim,

If you were to insert a tool like the Sebatron into the recording chain and still retain the Scarlett, at that point the Scarlett is only handling the job of the A/D conversion if the signal from the Sebatron goes through the Scarlet as a line input, correct?

Yes, it takes the Scarlett's preamps (the weakest part of your unit) out of the equation and the Scarlett now will only handle the AD/DA work.

[SprintBob]

Originally Posted by pipe dreamer

Something I became aware of when using outboard preamps is that the “line” input of cheaper interface is not a true line input. Therefore the mic pre of the interface still contributes to the signal/sound.

It bothered me until I got an interface with true line inputs (presonus quantum)

‘Tbh’ I’m not sure I would have know in a blind test, but you know..it can bother us and lead towards purchases in the never ending rabbit hole ��

Beautiful playing by the way ..

Which Presonus Quantum model do you have?

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

I try to have my gear's 'quality' level in the same ballpark. So when I get something new I use my best pieces of existing gear as the benchmark. Of course, that can place you in a never ending pattern of circling up.

Very true and very expensive. To avoid it (and I was not one of the lucky ones) takes the ability to be very honest with yourself, not just about your recording goals today, but what your recording goals might turn into a year or two from now. If you're impatient or someone who struggles with technology, recording may become a source of frustration. But if you're up to the challenge, you can create art that will survive long after you're gone.

If this feels like it's going to be something akin to a lifelong interest rather than a passing phase, I'd suggest trying to come up with a plan that focuses on putting together a quality lineup while avoiding the middle-of-the-road equipment that will eventually go unused. I'd suggest this at a minimum...

interface with quality preamps
tube preamp
SDC pair

$5-6K could cover it if you're buying new, but I'd suggest looking for deals on used gear to save money. If you sing, you'll also need an LDC, and that can add another $1500-$5k, depending on what you like.

Expensive? Yes. But a lot less expensive than getting there by, as Chuck calls it, the "never ending pattern of circling up."

By the way, that Sebatron I suggested could absolutely fill the "quality tube amp" slot for me.

Originally Posted by ChuckS

However, external gear ends up with more cabling and space requirements.

Cabling can become both overwhelming and expensive. My rack contains two interfaces, a monitor control system, three preamps, four compressors, an EQ, and an 11 space 500 rack. I'm going to estimate that between the patchbays and the cables, there's about $2K worth in this photo.

[SprintBob]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

I try to have my gear's 'quality' level in the same ballpark. So when I get something new I use my best pieces of existing gear as the benchmark. Of course, that can place you in a never ending pattern of circling up. Another approach is to lay out a general plan of where you want to get to, and upgrade over time based on that eventual goal. For example, do you want to put your money mainly into a 2 channel system for acoustic guitar, or do you need more channels? Does it need to be somewhat portable or not? What gear do you think you'd like to have as external pieces (i.e. mics, preamps, ADC, DAC, headphone amp, etc) and what do you think you'd want to have integrated (audio interface with preamps, ADCs, dsp, usb interface, DACs, headphone amp, etc)? Having external gear gives lots of flexibility (upgrading, having multiple of the same type to pick from) and doesn't go obsolete as quick as an audio interface that has analog and digital functions in the same device. However, external gear ends up with more cabling and space requirements.

If you get external preamps you will most likely want to upgrade from your Scarlett audio interface at some point (getting dedicated line inputs and better conversion). If you update your audio interface and use its ADCs you might want to get an interface that also has digital inputs (that would allow adding external ADC in the future).

But, it all depends if all this has benefit to you. Does the pursuit of gear give you some pleasure (is it part of your hobby and of interest to you), or do you want to set your limits based on some level audible acceptability? There's no right or wrong answer.

Great feedback Chuck. My goal is to set up my recording rig where all the components are of equal quality and performance. I kind of feel like coupling the mics I have with the Scarlett is like putting street tires on a Ferrari.

My recording interests are based on producing a high quality recording of any solo fingerstyle arrangement I put a lot of work into learning and getting to an audience worthy performance level and having that recording for either sharing or my own future reference/enjoyment.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by SprintBob

Great feedback Chuck. My goal is to set up my recording rig where all the components are of equal quality and performance. I kind of feel like coupling the mics I have with the Scarlett is like putting street tires on a Ferrari.

My recording interests are based on producing a high quality recording of any solo fingerstyle arrangement I put a lot of work into learning and getting to an audience worthy performance level and having that recording for either sharing or my own future reference/enjoyment.

A good goal (but can be expensive) Let me refer you to my other post. #25 with the screen shot ( I originally posted the wrong image ) of an excerpt from the Focusrite support site about bypassing the Pre's So if you use the combi jacks then the pre amps circuits remain in the chain BUT as they note it may not matter a great deal