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  #1  
Old 07-15-2018, 09:48 PM
BottledAwesome BottledAwesome is offline
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Default Bose L1C insta-feedback

Did a wedding gig yesterday and had rented the L1C as a supplement/backup to my Turbosound iP1000. The plan was to have my accompanying vocalist go through that with me, the guitar and stomp box through the iP.

We've run both of us through the iP plenty of times, and I knew it could handle it, but this was just for some extra assurance.

Now, I'm pretty sure that what follows is purely user error, so stand at the ready with your face-palms, please.

Wanting to keep the effects we had set up in our mixer, I ran one output from there into the Mic In on the L1C (I KNOW!!! ), and the other into the iP. Panned her mic hard into that output, and gave it a whirl. The mic was placed slightly off to the side, maybe 5-6 feet in front, and angled away from it.

No matter how much I played with levels at all stages on the mixer, I couldn't get any respectable level without feedback. Tweaked EQ, no luck. There was no way around it.

I didn't have the time or patience to do much more, so we packed it up, tucked it away and did the gig (very successfully) with the iP.

Was this just because I ran from the mixer into a mic-level input? I've never used one that was so testy like that. I have NOT used the L1C before, but have used a few of its bigger sisters, including at a showcase for this very wedding a year ago with great results.
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Old 07-15-2018, 10:15 PM
DavidE DavidE is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BottledAwesome View Post
Did a wedding gig yesterday and had rented the L1C as a supplement/backup to my Turbosound iP1000. The plan was to have my accompanying vocalist go through that with me, the guitar and stomp box through the iP.

We've run both of us through the iP plenty of times, and I knew it could handle it, but this was just for some extra assurance.

Now, I'm pretty sure that what follows is purely user error, so stand at the ready with your face-palms, please.

Wanting to keep the effects we had set up in our mixer, I ran one output from there into the Mic In on the L1C (I KNOW!!! ), and the other into the iP. Panned her mic hard into that output, and gave it a whirl. The mic was placed slightly off to the side, maybe 5-6 feet in front, and angled away from it.

No matter how much I played with levels at all stages on the mixer, I couldn't get any respectable level without feedback. Tweaked EQ, no luck. There was no way around it.

I didn't have the time or patience to do much more, so we packed it up, tucked it away and did the gig (very successfully) with the iP.

Was this just because I ran from the mixer into a mic-level input? I've never used one that was so testy like that. I have NOT used the L1C before, but have used a few of its bigger sisters, including at a showcase for this very wedding a year ago with great results.

I don't know why it happened, but user error for sure in some way. These Bose units are VERY feedback resistant.
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Old 07-15-2018, 10:45 PM
BottledAwesome BottledAwesome is offline
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That is my experience as well, which is why I went for it in the first place. Owning a similar type of system and using it weekly at gig levels, I obviously know my way around it, so I was a little surprised.

This wasn't anything close to feedback resistant. It was entirely unusable.
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Old 07-16-2018, 12:36 AM
Peter Z Peter Z is offline
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The L1c ist feedback resistant in open air applications or in treated rooms. If you have a reflective surface close to a L1c you can get into a feedback-desaster easily. Then you have to play with speaker/mic placement to solve that problems.

The wide coverage of the Bose can help with feedback - or can cause feedback. It depends on the situation.
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Old 07-16-2018, 01:00 AM
BottledAwesome BottledAwesome is offline
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Right, kind of a critical piece of info.

I was outside. The nearest surface was a tree, and then a house 150+ feet away.
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Old 07-16-2018, 01:23 AM
Nymuso Nymuso is offline
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Yes, these arrays can and do feed back, just not to the degree or with the regularity or predictability of the technology we grew up with.

We routinely run the output of our mixer to the input on the right side of the L1C. I have tried running it to the mic input, but it is neither as controllable nor as smooth as the second input (with that little slider switch in the down position).
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Old 07-16-2018, 02:21 AM
Nama Ensou Nama Ensou is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BottledAwesome View Post
Right, kind of a critical piece of info.

I was outside. The nearest surface was a tree, and then a house 150+ feet away.
Hard to say without knowing what kind of tree, but the surfaces of the leaves of certain tree species could possibly be the source of the feedback.
Or if the house had vinyl siding.

Anyway, slightly off to the side and 5-6 feet away sounds good and I'm sure it had somewhat to do with using the mic input more than anything else. I have had a couple feedback prone situations that I was able to salvage by simply moving the Bose even further back, like as much as 15 feet or so diagonally as well as making sure the mic is slightly tipped up rather than straight. The slight differences can be all that is needed at times.
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Last edited by Nama Ensou; 07-16-2018 at 03:28 AM.
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Old 07-16-2018, 03:34 AM
philjs philjs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BottledAwesome View Post
Wanting to keep the effects we had set up in our mixer, I ran one output from there into the Mic In on the L1C (I KNOW!!! ).
But, do you? Apparently not... The feedback had NOTHING to do with the L1c, it's placement or nearby objects!

The feedback occurred because you were running a line-level speaker output (aka a very "hot" signal) into a mic-level microphone input (aka a signal-boosting preamp). Simply put, you were overloading the L1c input. To have any control over the input you need to pad that line-level by about 30dB. One of the only mixers I know that will do that out of the box is the A&H ZED 10fx.

One solution, if this issue comes up again, is to use a passive DI with a 20db, 30dB or 40db pad switch between the mixer and the mic input...this would "cool" the signal to allow some control at the input. You'll likely need an XLR (female) to 1/4" (male) adapter or cable (but, of course, if you have one then you can just run into the L1c's 1/4" input with the switch down to "line"!)

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  #9  
Old 07-16-2018, 05:28 AM
martingitdave martingitdave is offline
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Default Bose L1C insta-feedback

The mic input on the L1C is not a flat EQ. It uses an automatic tone match and very high fixed input gain setting that is probably responsible for your feedback experience. If you want a flat channel you have to output to a TRS jack and switch the second channel to line. The L1C probably isn’t the right companion for you other system. It would have probably been better to get a second IP, or a conventional QSC K8.2 or 10.2 speaker on a pole.
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Old 07-16-2018, 08:56 AM
BottledAwesome BottledAwesome is offline
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Originally Posted by martingitdave View Post
The mic input on the L1C is not a flat EQ. It uses an automatic tone match and very high fixed input gain setting that is probably responsible for your feedback experience. If you want a flat channel you have to output to a TRS jack and switch the second channel to line. The L1C probably isn’t the right companion for you other system. It would have probably been better to get a second IP, or a conventional QSC K8.2 or 10.2 speaker on a pole.
That makes sense.

And I agree about the second speaker choice, but the Bose systems are the only one of their kind available to rent in my area, so there's that.

Either way, it wasn't a show killer. We did just fine without it. Now I know for next time.
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Old 07-16-2018, 12:36 PM
RockerDuck RockerDuck is offline
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The mixer should go into the line level input, not the mic level input. You added lots of gain to your signal and that's why you got feed back.
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Old 07-16-2018, 03:11 PM
Johnny.guitar Johnny.guitar is offline
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Also I prefer to move the L1C as much as 8-10 ft to the side and back a few feet. That way there’s no chance of feedback and your getting what the Audience is getting. And as others have stated, never go from a board into the mic input. Convert to 1/4” and go into the guitar input with the switch in “line” position
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Old 07-16-2018, 08:18 PM
jseth jseth is offline
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After using my Bose L1 Classic and L1 Model II for over 8 years, I have to call BS on the "they can cause feedback" statement. In all my years of performing, I have NEVER used a system that is less prone to feeding back than the Bose rigs...

About the only times I've had any trouble was with the acoustic guitar when I HAD to have the entire unit right next to me, due to space issues with the stage/venue. Then, I got a little bit of "sonic insubordination" from that pesky 200/400 hz, area. Bose does recommend that the unit be placed some 6-12' away from the performer, diagonally behind. I normally like to have mine 8-10' away over my left shoulder (so the box on my guitar doesn't act as a "resonate chamber" with the subwoofer on the Model II).

Now that we've all corrected you on using that mic input, here's something else to chew on: the actual sound of the Bose is NOT going to "match up" with your other system - it's gonna sound quite different. If you try to use the same EQ and effects as a "point and shoot" system, I don't believe the Bose is going to sound anywhere near as good as it can... I'd first off take ALL the effects out of the line to the Bose and dial the rig in from there, adding effects only after getting the sound I wanted...

Hope I understood you correctly, that you were attempting to use the Bose IN CONJUNCTION with your other/normal rig, right?

Seems you're trying to mix apples and oranges with the two systems - probably better to go one way or the other rather than both.
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Old 07-17-2018, 06:56 AM
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Chriscom Chriscom is online now
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Seems you're trying to mix apples and oranges with the two systems - probably better to go one way or the other rather than both.

The OP has noted that the Bose was available for rental in his area, the Turbosound, not.

There's a good chance I'll end up with an L1 Model II and it never would have occurred to me to place the sub on the other side of my body so the guitar wouldn't act as a resonant chamber. Super tip.
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Old 07-17-2018, 07:50 AM
Peter Z Peter Z is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BottledAwesome View Post
Right, kind of a critical piece of info.

I was outside. The nearest surface was a tree, and then a house 150+ feet away.
Sorry, didn't know that. I'm sure the tree is not to blame.
That leaves the EQed mic input of the L1c.
Also, maybe you ran the mic input into little distortion that enhanced the high end of the L1c.

I never liked the mic input of the L1c even if I have to say the it worked soundwise with a SM58like mic. These inputs werde noisy on all 3 of my L1cs. I like channel gain, channel fader an master fader on my mixing units. I have no idea where the knob of the mic input is placed in the gain chain on the L1c. And that means I don't know what it does and where distortion can occur. That confuses my old brain.
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