When is Common Time Not So Common?

[Paikon]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

You have not listened to the examples posted earlier in the thread. For example listen here
http://www.onlinesheetmusic.com/chri...aspx?type=list

i wrote both on sibelius my friend ....

[stanron]

This is kinda turning into an argument over nothing. The dotted eighth and sixteenth rhythm is a shorthand for triplet time. It is easier to write and, when you know it, it is easy enough to read. It happens in folk music particularly. It is not meant to be read literally.

[Paikon]

Originally Posted by stanron

This is kinda turning into an argument over nothing. The dotted eighth and sixteenth rhythm is a shorthand for triplet time. It is easier to write and, when you know it, it is easy enough to read. It happens in folk music particularly. It is not meant to be read literally.

classical musicians would disagree !

[stanron]

"classical musicians would disagree !"

I have no problem with that but of course this is not classical music. Incidentally I have just opened Sibelius and put in four four time a beat of dotted eighth and sixteenth and a beat of forced triplet twice in one bar. The difference is obvious. Play it faster and the difference lessens but it is definitely there.

[Paikon]

Originally Posted by stanron

"classical musicians would disagree !"

I have no problem with that but of course this is not classical music. Incidentally I have just opened Sibelius and put in four four time a beat of dotted eighth and sixteenth and a beat of forced triplet twice in one bar. The difference is obvious. Play it faster and the difference lessens but it is definitely there.

so what do you say about the instrumental part at 1:22
what time signature is it?

[stanron]

Sure it sounds like six eight. I bet I could get it to sound like that in Sibelius in four four in two different ways. This is not about how I or you would do it.

In traditional music the dots are an indication not an unbreakable law. Traditional Irish music has many subtleties of rhythm and decoration that are impossible to notate. You are supposed to know the genre well enough to use the notation as a skeleton which you dress with your knowledge, skill and imagination. Of course incomers to the genre don't always manage this.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by stanron

This is kinda turning into an argument over nothing. The dotted eighth and sixteenth rhythm is a shorthand for triplet time. It is easier to write and, when you know it, it is easy enough to read. It happens in folk music particularly. It is not meant to be read literally.

Not true at all.

[Paikon]

i dont know anything about Irish music and of course interpretetion plays a huge role but the purpose of the thread was to determine what rhythm was it

you can call it a swingy 4/4 or a marchy 6/8 but just for the shake of accuracy i d write it at 6/8
i have to say i had to remember music once again when i was stadying it but defenitelly i d go with 6/8 on this one
of course thats just me

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by Paikon

so what do you say about the instrumental part at 1:22
what time signature is it?

Man, this gets frustrating. I already pointed out that at this part of the recording he was not playing dotted 8ths plus 16ths. That is not the case in most of the rest of the recording.

[stanron]

I think I'd go along with you using six eight if I was writing it out and wanted to include the instrumental bit at 1.22.

[Paikon]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Man, this gets frustrating. I already pointed out that at this part of the recording he was not playing dotted 8ths plus 16ths. That is not the case in most of the rest of the recording.

that post wasnt for you

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by stanron

"classical musicians would disagree !"

I have no problem with that but of course this is not classical music. Incidentally I have just opened Sibelius and put in four four time a beat of dotted eighth and sixteenth and a beat of forced triplet twice in one bar. The difference is obvious. Play it faster and the difference lessens but it is definitely there.

And this is of course true.

And here are my clips I posted earlier

Original midi recording from score:
http://dcoombsguitar.com/Guitar%20Mu...eyOriginal.wav

Example of dotted 8th + 16th (123-1-123-1)
http://dcoombsguitar.com/Guitar%20Music/Other/Killarney.wav

Example using triplets (12-1-12-1)
http://dcoombsguitar.com/Guitar%20Music/Other/KillarneyTriplets.wav

The dotted 8th + 16th in drum with metronome combined with the original recording
http://dcoombsguitar.com/Guitar%20Mu...mKillarney.wav

[stanron]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

And here are my clips I posted earlier

When you write 8th and 16th do you mean dotted 8th? If this is not the case 8th and 16th will sound exactly the same as a forced triplet in 4 4 time.

Can you put a dotted 8th and 16 next to a forced triplet twice in a bar of 4 4 time and post that? The difference is more obvious the slower you play it. I have no host site to post this myself.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by stanron

When you write 8th and 16th do you mean dotted 8th? If this is not the case 8th and 16th will sound exactly the same as a forced triplet in 4 4 time.

Can you put a dotted 8th and 16 next to a forced triplet twice in a bar of 4 4 time and post that? The difference is more obvious the slower you play it. I have no host site to post this myself.

Opps, my bad.

I forgot to type in "dotted" when dotted was what I meant (just like in the score). I went back and corrected the post.
The recordings are correct (dotted 8th plus a 16th (123-1-123-1 rhythm).

An 8th ( without a dote) and a 16th would of course have the same rhythm as an eighth note triplet with the first two eighth notes tied together.

[stanron]

Cheers. My point in asking you to post another sample is to demonstrate that they do sound different but not so different that I could guarantee which was which if played separately especially at speed. The point being that for practical purposes the three ways of writing the tune are interchangeable.

Was the sheet music you posted directly linked to the Irish Rover?