The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > PLAY and Write

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #16  
Old 03-02-2021, 02:45 PM
nightchef nightchef is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Boston
Posts: 401
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rllink View Post
It seems that the common belief is that for some reason being blessed with perfect pitch curses that person with pain if they hear a pitch that isn't perfect. Why would it be anymore painful to hear a note out of tune for that person then for the rest of us? I can certainly hear notes that might not be in tune, depending on context, it doesn't cause me pain. Can't most of us hear a klinker? And out of tune in relation to what? Jazz players purposely play discordant notes. Is it impossible for persons with perfect pitch to listen to Jazz? Just thinking about it.
I don't know about pain, but it can create practical problems. I sing tenor in a chorus where one of the other tenors has perfect pitch. This is a very good chorus, and we usually stay very close to concert pitch once we start a piece. But we do commonly drift just a few cents off. My tenor colleague has trouble staying with us when this happens. He tends to stick to the true pitch, even when that has become relatively sharp (or more rarely, flat), and that can futz up the blend. He understands the problem and does his best to meet us halfway, but he finds it genuinely hard.
__________________
Martin HD-28
Eastman E10OM
Guild D50
Martin D12X1AE
LaPatrie CW Concert
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-02-2021, 02:46 PM
CASD57 CASD57 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Meridian, Idaho
Posts: 2,067
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cecil6243 View Post
As in to recognize an A note vs. an F on the guitar without looking where it is played? And of course not being born with perfect pitch if there really is such a thing. I seem to remember my roommate that was a music major at Indiana University was taking a class on that.



Is there anyone here that can do that?



I guess I could look this up on the Internet but it's more fun to ask questions here.
Not sure if this relates, but I can move the capo up and down the neck and sing the until I hit my top or bottom, but to tell you the key without looking I couldn't tell you. But I have no problem singing the same song in different keys on the fly
__________________
Play like your the only one in the room...........



Join AGF's Open Mic...Watch Your Fellow AGF'ers Play and Join In............
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2545310019089736
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-03-2021, 06:14 AM
Andy Howell Andy Howell is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,061
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wags View Post
My quick answer - you can train your ear to recognize relative pitch, ie., intervals and even complex chords, but perfect pitch is likely a gift, and more often than not, a curse.
About right. In a desperate push I can usually tune to D!
__________________
------
AJ Lucas Pavilion Sweep fan fret
Santa Cruz OM/E (European Pre War)
Martin J40
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-03-2021, 06:32 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 5,503
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rllink View Post
It seems that the common belief is that for some reason being blessed with perfect pitch curses that person with pain if they hear a pitch that isn't perfect. Why would it be anymore painful to hear a note out of tune for that person then for the rest of us? I can certainly hear notes that might not be in tune, depending on context, it doesn't cause me pain. Can't most of us hear a klinker? And out of tune in relation to what? Jazz players purposely play discordant notes. Is it impossible for persons with perfect pitch to listen to Jazz? Just thinking about it.
Not at all.

What you mean by "discordant" notes are notes that have an unusual relationship with other pitches. That's a relative pitch issue, not a perfect pitch one. A Db against a C7 (e.g.) might sound too dissonant (unpleasantly so) for someone not used to jazz harmony, but someone with perfect pitch would not be bothered provided all the notes were in tune with the pitches they know. (They might also be bothered by the relative pitch issue if they weren't jazz fans, but that's different.)

What might bother the person with perfect pitch (and not the person without) would be when a performance or recording is not in tune with concert. E.g., if all the instruments were in tune with each other (so it sounds good to most people) but happened to be tuned to a reference other than 440. Again, the person with PP could certainly tell that the performance was flat or sharp of the usual reference pitches (the ones stored in their head), but they might not be bothered by that. It would just be an observation they could make, which no one else could.
But it might well bother them if it was a version of a piece they knew very well in the right "concert" key. Then it would sound distinctly "wrong" to them if it was just a little lower or higher. And of course even more wrong if the whole thing had been transposed, by a semitone or more, e.g., to suit a different singer.

It's a fact that some singers with perfect pitch hate singing in unaccompanied choirs, because choirs as a whole can drift flat or sharp from an initial reference pitch. They can still all be in perfect harmony with each other, but every note they sing is either flat or sharp of the A=440 equivalent. To the person with PP this is just totally "wrong" - but to their ears only. They would be attempting to stick to their "correct" reference pitch (the specific notes they know are right), so would be sounding out of tune with everyone else. To them, of course, it's everyone else that is "off key"!

Of course, some with perfect pitch are able to tolerate this by just parking their PP skill in the back of their mind - but they need to have good relative pitch to over-ride the PP instinct.
__________________
"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." - Leonard Cohen.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-03-2021, 11:22 AM
ljguitar's Avatar
ljguitar ljguitar is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: wyoming
Posts: 40,090
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly Moustache View Post
I understand that "perfect pitch" can be more of a curse than a blessing.
Hi Elderly singer, guitarist, etc…

Yes…apparently so!

I believe there are many different variants of what is termed 'perfect pitch'.

We had a choir director who started every rehearsal by saying "Sing an A" and by the end of the semester (as a group) we'd nail it every time. It was a real group exercise because we took a few seconds to settle on the pitch.




__________________
Larry J

Baby #01
Baby #02
Baby #03
Baby #04
Full-size Full-Scale Baby #4

Larry's songs...

…Just because you've argued till a discussion turns silent doesn't mean you have convinced anyone…
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 03-03-2021, 02:11 PM
H165 H165 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: The Woods; OC, CA
Posts: 2,146
Default

My high school friend Pete has pitch memory. As desribed above, he was the choir pitch-pipe among many other talents. He was sort of our August Rush.

He took advantage of it. He's always made a good living in the music business - performing, producing, directing, writing, arranging. Here's one of his current websites:

https://petejacobsband.com/performer...e%20big%2Dband.

Last edited by H165; 03-03-2021 at 02:16 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 03-03-2021, 09:53 PM
The Bard Rocks The Bard Rocks is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Mohawk Valley
Posts: 6,382
Default

I have two friends with perfect pitch. Boy can they tune quickly. One is a violinist, knows nothing about guitar. I bend an A for instance and without hesitation she says, "it is higher than A but not A#". You can't fool her.

That said, my pitch is not good, so I decided to try to see if I could improve it. The key for me is to remember what it feels like to sing a certain note. Then, when I hear a song on the radio, I match the ending note and try to decide what it is, depending upon how it feels to me. I of course know that it is not likely to be certain notes, say a C#, Gb and so on as so few musicians play in those keys (without capos), so that give see less notes to chose from. Quite often I am right anymore.

I had a neat experience at Ashokan many years ago. We were in a vocal class for non-vocalists.The girl next to me was a music major, obviously on an instrument, not a vocalist. The instructor would play something and I'd whisper to her that it was in D or whatever ever. "How can you tell". I'd answer "Don't you hear it?" She didn't of course. Nor did I - I was reading the chords he played, not listening. She thought I was pretty neat until I told her what I was doing. Today I might have a chance by listening.
__________________
The Bard Rocks

Kinnaird 000 Adk/Ziricote
Sexauer L00 Adk/Magnolia
Hatcher Jumbo Bearclaw/"Bacon" Padauk
Leach "Arctos" OM Millenium Sequioa/Macassar Ebony
Goodall Jumbo POC/flamed Mahogany
McAlister baritone Adk/Bubinga
Appollonio 12 POC/Myrtle
MJ Franks Resonator, all Australian Blackwood
'31 National Duolian
banjos of all kinds, mandolin, autoharp, tiple...
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03-04-2021, 05:24 AM
Andy Howell Andy Howell is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,061
Default

It is possible to improve your recognition of pitch and many systems doing this use the changing sound or colour of a note to appreciate when it is tune. It is worth exploring.

Absolutely perfect pitch is somethign different and many work oon a natural talent to be able to name and shape notes and chords. Perfect pitch diminishes with age!
__________________
------
AJ Lucas Pavilion Sweep fan fret
Santa Cruz OM/E (European Pre War)
Martin J40
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03-13-2021, 06:20 PM
Guitarplayer_PR Guitarplayer_PR is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Puerto Rico
Posts: 1,492
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cecil6243 View Post
As in to recognize an A note vs. an F on the guitar without looking where it is played? And of course not being born with perfect pitch if there really is such a thing. I seem to remember my roommate that was a music major at Indiana University was taking a class on that.

Is there anyone here that can do that?

I guess I could look this up on the Internet but it's more fun to ask questions here.

I'm a perfect-pitch guy.

Yes, you can.
__________________
Acoustics:

-2011 Taylor 414e
-2019 Taylor 317e
-1982 Ovation Folklore 1614
-2019 Taylor 322ce 12-fret
-1989's Ovation Legend 1717
-Cordoba 21T-ce

Electric:

-Epiphone Casino w/ Fralin Noiseless P90
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 03-16-2021, 10:53 AM
lar lar is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: san diego
Posts: 610
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly Moustache View Post
My sincere thanks to JonPR for that considered information. Today, I have learnt something! That's a good day!
Ditto

Jon, you must have thought about/studied this topic extensively. It shows.

And for a reason(s) that eludes me, when I read what you write I understand it immediately - no need to re-read. My guess is that you are a music educator.

Do you have anything else I can read? A book on music theory? A novel? Science Fiction?
__________________
Kenny Hill Player (nylon)
Gibson AJ (2012)
Cordoba GK Studio
Rogue Resonator (kindling)
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 03-24-2021, 10:38 AM
brushknee brushknee is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 9
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cecil6243 View Post
As in to recognize an A note vs. an F on the guitar without looking ....
Bought that David L. Burge course about 30 years ago. Never got far with it.

According to him F# is the most distinct tone color, maybe you should start there and then just go relative pitch once F# is established.

F# phygrian lends itself to guitar at any rate (lot's of Spanish compositions and for example Alex Lifeson's power chord at the Hemisphere's intro)

I also bought DLB's relative pitch course and got a bit further with that, but nothing to write home about. Well the truth is I didn't get anywhere with either of these, I can easily recognize an octave and a perfect 5th, beyond that I have to identify it stepwise from the major scale.

There is also the old Jadassohn book PDF floating around out there, which I find a much better more condensed straightforward format. Hopeful about that book, just have to buckle down and do it.

Last edited by brushknee; 03-24-2021 at 10:46 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > PLAY and Write

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=