Data on acoustic guitar manufacturing and/or sales?

[colins]

Originally Posted by Italuke

Yup, this exactly. In the grand scheme of things, guitars are just another consumer product. Like...I dunno, like toasters. It's only people like us who geek out on wanting production figures, etc. ...

I have quite a few toasters. Several for different sorts of bread, one to take camping, and one really old one that is dinted and scruffy but still toasts great.

I'm thinking of getting a custom toaster made, to give me a bit more versatility with ciabatta, and I can have it made with my initials in MOP. I plan to sell a few toasters to pay for the custom one, and I’m finding the ‘name’ toasters have better resale value.

(I have several jaffle irons too; they look a lot like banjos. But I don't tell many people that I have them, or that I like them.)

Do I have toaster acquisition syndrome?

[Italuke]

Originally Posted by colins

I have quite a few toasters. Several for different sorts of bread, one to take camping, and one really old one that is dinted and scruffy but still toasts great.

I'm thinking of getting a custom toaster made, to give me a bit more versatility with ciabatta, and I can have it made with my initials in MOP. I plan to sell a few toasters to pay for the custom one, and I’m finding the ‘name’ toasters have better resale value.

(I have several jaffle irons too; they look a lot like banjos. But I don't tell many people that I have them, or that I like them.)

Do I have toaster acquisition syndrome?

Yes you do!!! But alas, you're truly a different breed, you're into BOUTIQUE toasters, which I believe represents about .003% of the market. (Maybe toasters wasn't the best analogy, but still, for the large manufacturers, which IS the topic of this thread, guitars are nothing special, a consumer item.)

[colins]

Originally Posted by Italuke

Yes you do!!! But alas, you're truly a different breed, you're into BOUTIQUE toasters, which I believe represents about .003% of the market. (Maybe toasters wasn't the best analogy, but still, for the large manufacturers, which IS the topic of this thread, guitars are nothing special, a consumer item.)

Nah, toasters was a good analogy. I was just being silly

[turtlejimmy]

Originally Posted by colins

Do I have toaster acquisition syndrome?

If you're considering the resale value of toasters, I would say YES.



Turtle

[sinistral]

Originally Posted by rufjbn

It's interesting to know how many guitars Martin makes each year (say 122,191) but it could also be useful to know something about the methods used to arrive at these kinds of estimates.

Some sources of estimates of the numbers of guitars produced by each manufacturer that have been mentioned in this thread include:

1) records of serial numbers placed on each guitar produced by a given manufacturer
2) cruise guitar shop(s) and guesstimate the number of units produced by each manufacturer that are hanging on the wall
3) "an article I read years ago"
4) disclosures of financial performance filed with tax authorities (at least for publicly owned companies that manufacture guitars)
5) extemporaneous report of a luthier who makes guitars for a certain manufacturer

In the case of Martin, it’s not an estimate. The method used to arrive at those numbers is called “subtraction.” With certain exceptions noted by Martin in their serial number tables, guitars produced in a given year are numbered sequentially. So if you take the serial number at the beginning of a given year and subtract the serial number from the beginning of the prior year, you get the number of guitars produced in the prior year.

Originally Posted by rufjbn

Not only are they not obligated to publish those kinds of data, they could have an incentive to keep the information from becoming public.

This article includes some market data about Taylor, albeit from 2019. It seems as if the author had access to the company for information, so there’s a decent chance the figures are reliable.

At a higher level, what is your interest?

[rufjbn]

Originally Posted by sinistral

In the case of Martin, it’s not an estimate.

If you mean that the number is exact and perfect and with no possibility of even the smallest error, then I disagree. Unless of course you are God (or Kurt Listug, which could be the same thing) in which case you wouldn't need serial numbers at all. The best a mere mortal can hope for is an extremely accurate and reliable estimate.

Originally Posted by sinistral

At a higher level, what is your interest?

Just curious really. From time to time, someone will make a claim about the manufacture or retail sale of acoustic guitars (Company A is the third leading producer of acoustic guitars, Company B produces the largest numbers of cheap knock-offs of high-end acoustic guitars, Company C sells more acoustic guitars in the EU than any other company, in 2006 Company D began producing more acoustic guitars than Company E, Company F makes more acoustic guitars in a day than Company G makes in a year, etc.). Don't you want to know where the numbers come from? Or if it is mostly a bunch of the usual bovine scat on the interwebs?

[sinistral]

Originally Posted by rufjbn

If you mean that the number is exact and perfect and with no possibility of even the smallest error, then I disagree. Unless of course you are God (or Kurt Listug, which could be the same thing) in which case you wouldn't need serial numbers at all. The best a mere mortal can hope for is an extremely accurate and reliable estimate.

Here’s Martin’s serial number lookup list: Dating Your Martin Guitar. I can’t be bothered to find where the Martin company itself has stated that every guitar produced in a given year is given a sequential serial number, but I have read it somewhere.* So to get the number of guitars that Martin built in, say, 2019, you subtract the starting number for 2019 from the starting number for 2020. Since Little Martin and Backpacker guitars are assigned their own serial number ranges, to get a complete number you need to perform the same calculation for those guitars for 2019, and then add the three together. So in addition to subtraction, it does involve a little addition as well. I’m not sure what more a mere mortal needs?

* Note that this works for more recent years, since in the past Martin made guitars under different brand names or for other companies (e.g., Sigma, Ditson, etc.).

Originally Posted by rufjbn

Just curious really. From time to time, someone will make a claim about the manufacture or retail sale of acoustic guitars (Company A is the third leading producer of acoustic guitars, Company B produces the largest numbers of cheap knock-offs of high-end acoustic guitars, Company C sells more acoustic guitars in the EU than any other company, in 2006 Company D began producing more acoustic guitars than Company E, Company F makes more acoustic guitars in a day than Company G makes in a year, etc.). Don't you want to know where the numbers come from? Or if it is mostly a bunch of the usual bovine scat on the interwebs?

Some people (a lot of people actually—it’s a huge business) follow celebrity gossip. I personally don’t. The relative size of different guitar companies and other statistics you mention above don’t really interest me. To each his or her own.

[rufjbn]

Originally Posted by sinistral

The relative size of different guitar companies and other statistics you mention above don’t really interest me.

No doubt with a little effort, you'll be able to find a thread with a more appealing subject.

[rufjbn]

The biggest online marketplace for new, used, and vintage music gear keeps track of the best selling acoustic guitars over various periods. For example, the best selling acoustic guitars in the past 90 days include the Gretsch G9500 Jim Dandy, the PRS SE P20E, and the Fender Acoustasonic Player Telecaster. Best selling dreadnoughts in the past 90 days include the Gibson J-45 Standard 2009-2019, the Martin Standard Series HD-28, and the Takamine EF341SC Dreadnought Cutaway. The best sellers are based on the number of units sold (not on the total cost).

[619TF]

Originally Posted by rufjbn

No doubt with a little effort, you'll be able to find a thread with a more appealing subject.

[Dotneck]

Originally Posted by Italuke

And yes, Cort is king. And many of them are very good guitars. Korean quality is top notch.

I was going to suggest Cort as one of the bigger manufacturers. I’m pretty sure they dwarf US companies

[Dotneck]

Originally Posted by rufjbn

The brochure for the report asks "How do you get sales data in an industry where most of the business is done by privately held companies, and there are few, if any, reporting sources?.

Sounds like a masters thesis for an MBA program in marketing…

[Dotneck]

Originally Posted by rufjbn

Or if it is mostly a bunch of the usual bovine scat on the interwebs?

Are you suggesting that someone on an internet discussion forum can make unsubstantiated statements of fact? Heresy!

[rllink]

A lot of speculation goes on in these discussions.

[rufjbn]

Originally Posted by Dotneck

Are you suggesting that someone on an internet discussion forum can make unsubstantiated statements of fact? Heresy!

Right? Sometimes someone on an internet discussion forum may even pretend to know more than they really do.

Unspeakably heinous? You bet.