New Martin "Super D"

[Brucebubs]

Originally Posted by SongwriterFan

I don't use a pick, and I don't have a strong right hand, so I couldn't get any more volume out of one that a standard Martin dreadnought.

Given the way I played it, it reminded me of a Gibson SJ-200 (I even played one they had there just to make sure I wasn't mis-remembering what one sounds like).

Interesting observation SongwriterFan - a pick and a strong right hand are what really makes an SJ-200 come alive - maybe that's just what the Martin Super D needs too?

As an SJ-200 owner I'm curious and would love to try one now.

[LakewoodM32Fan]

For those who've played it: is it really "12dB louder" than a standard Martin D?

For those who don't have dB meters, 10dB increase is "perceived by the human ear to be twice as loud". So 12dB would be akin to a normal human conversation (which is about 60dB) to a human shout (between 65dB-75dB depending on one's shouting capability).

Another reference point, if you're watching a movie at normal volumes in a decent home theater, normal onscreen dialogue is about 60dBs. Explosions, gunshots, etc. (e.g. action movies) tend to be in the 70-75dB range.

[SongwriterFan]

Originally Posted by zoopeda

Nice! Where did you play it?

Tone Shop Guitars (in Addison, TX . . . just north of Dallas)
https://www.toneshopguitars.com/

Apparently, only about 30 dealers in the US will be getting them in the first shipments. I think this place said they expect to get about 20 in the next year.

I wonder if this one is designed to be a flatpicker’s canon?

I suspect so . . . I'm sure it's a Bluegrass players dream.

Originally Posted by Brucebubs

Interesting observation SongwriterFan - a pick and a strong right hand are what really makes an SJ-200 come alive - maybe that's just what the Martin Super D needs too?

Yep. One of the employees play it with a pick . . that's definitely what it needs.

When I played it (and the SJ-200) with my fingers, it sounded/felt "big", but like all the volume was trapped inside the guitar. I think both guitars would sound better (to me) with a sound port on them.

Originally Posted by LakewoodM32Fan

For those who've played it: is it really "12dB louder" than a standard Martin D?

I doubt it. But I didn't pull out the db meter (an app on my phone). Nor did the employee paying it play a standard dreadnought for comparison (while I was there).

[Monts]

There are two of these for sale right next door to where I work. They have a Koa and a Guatemalan in the showroom right now. I may have to take a walk over and play one. I'm wondering if it could possibly be louder than my CS Bluegrass 16? Anyone own one or play one yet?

[Jeremy]

Originally Posted by LakewoodM32Fan

For those who've played it: is it really "12dB louder" than a standard Martin D?

For those who don't have dB meters, 10dB increase is "perceived by the human ear to be twice as loud". So 12dB would be akin to a normal human conversation (which is about 60dB) to a human shout (between 65dB-75dB depending on one's shouting capability).

Another reference point, if you're watching a movie at normal volumes in a decent home theater, normal onscreen dialogue is about 60dBs. Explosions, gunshots, etc. (e.g. action movies) tend to be in the 70-75dB range.

My local shop got one of each in last week and I was able to spend some time with them. The koa version was louder than the rosewood. While both were definitely louder and more boomy than the D-28 I compared them to, I certainly wouldn't say they were twice as loud.

It did have a satisfying deep, rumbling low end that made me smile while playing. A guitar that big isn't something I would personally buy, but I like it.

[Wonderwall]

Originally Posted by Jeremy

My local shop got one of each in last week and I was able to spend some time with them. The koa version was louder than the rosewood. While both were definitely louder and more boomy than the D-28 I compared them to, I certainly wouldn't say they were twice as loud.



It did have a satisfying deep, rumbling low end that made me smile while playing. A guitar that big isn't something I would personally buy, but I like it.

Do you mind if I ask what your local shop is? I’ve always even impressed with the D-42 Kia, the Super D definitely pikes my interest.

[Monts]

Originally Posted by Wonderwall

Do you mind if I ask what your local shop is? I’ve always even impressed with the D-42 Kia, the Super D definitely pikes my interest.

https://empiremusic.com/shop/categor.../?brand=martin

Before pulling the trigger online I would give them a call or go there in person, it may save you some $$$

[marciero]

Late to this thread but a couple of thoughts-

I'm still seeing the 12db claim in the Martin copy on the web site. Solving 10log(x) = 12 That would equate to an impossible sounding almost 16 times the power, compared to whatever guitar they are comparing. I believe the units are watts per square meter.

If the guitar is louder, I dont necessarily attribute it to the size. In fact their own copy seems to attribute it to bracing. Violins for example are loud in part due to their efficient use of the small body size.

The Lemon Grove era Taylor dreds are another example of a bigger body. I have one.

I think guitarists tend to be a conservative lot. Maybe bluegrassers in particular, and may be slow to accept different shape. On the other hand there does seem to be a fair amount of positive response here.

This chasing volume is the same in the gypsy jazz scene (not even sure if it is still appropriate to call it that) with selmer type guitars, which were designed around the same time as the Martin dred and with the same design aims- a loud a guitar, essentially. Both designs achieved that aim but how interesting the radically different approaches and tone.

Speaking of volume and tone- it's not just volume that allows one to be heard when playing with others but where the guitar sits tonally- whether it "cuts" through. The selmers certainly cut through a mix. And many bluegrassers seem to favor mahogany dreads over rosewood for the dry tone and strong fundamental that occupies a tighter harmonic space, if you will.

Wondering what the tonal tradeoffs are of the super D.

[martingitdave]

Played both of these models with Koa and GRW. I preferred the GRW, though the Koa was no slouch. These guitars sound like a cross between a Jumbo and a good and loud dreadnought. There is a sub-bass that is not present in my Marquis or any of the D-28 Authentics I owned. It's musical surprisingly, but it's the sub-bass you might expect from a big ol' SJ-200 or Guild Jumbo. It sounds amazing in open D, drop D, DADGAD, etc. On the other hand, the single note lines are surprisingly clear and it is as responsive as an HD-28. Maybe not as responsive as a D-28 Authentic, but close. Nice guitars. I plan to purchase one for using with my Bluegrass groups, where I mostly play rhythm. I would probably opt for a D-28 Authentic if I were mostly a lead player, or I happened to like the Authentic '37 neck. But, I have my Marquis for that. Several years ago I bought a Taylor 818 "Grand Orchestra" model, which was a lovely looking Jumbo sized guitar. Not dissimilar in dimensions I presume. However, the Super Dreadnought is much better implementation of the large guitar to my ears and hands. Sure, it looks about 1/2" too big all around, but it seems to get the job done. Probably not for everyone, but seems like a good fit for my live unamplified acoustic music/ensembles.

Here was an example video from Music Villa



A nice demo here



Another style I play in



Compared to a CS HD-28

[llew]

Be interesting after having a little time behind it since it's introduction if Martin decides to do a mahogany version. Think that might be more to my liking?

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by llew

Be interesting after having a little time behind it since it's introduction if Martin decides to do a mahogany version. Think that might be more to my liking?

Evidently, they produced them as part of the prototype and they were very well received. I think it would make a nice D-18. I think the Koa probably sounds closer to Mahogany.

For me, I think I've chased every dread I can get my hands on and the best sounding ones have not had necks I can play, or they are simply too expensive for me. This super D is different and accomplishes a lot of what I want.

[SpruceTop]

Thanks, Dave. Could a Martin Super D+ be far behind? I mean bigger is better than big, right? Why do I see a naval battle amongst dreadnought makers brewing on the high seas of tone.

[lowrider]

Dave, I think you've got a classic there. It might become a big seller someday but Martin didn't get a lot of orders for these. Wildwood Guitar bough up all of Martin's unordered stock;

https://wildwoodguitars.com/product-...artin-guitars/

They've got almost 50 of them. Anybody looking for a Super D, contact Wildwood!

[Treenewt]

Originally Posted by llew

Be interesting after having a little time behind it since it's introduction if Martin decides to do a mahogany version. Think that might be more to my liking?

My guess is not only a mahogany version, but this size expanded into the line as a whole. Why make a new shape and limit it to high end guitars? Just like the original dread made it’s way out into the full line, I bet this will too.

[Dirk Hofman]

Originally Posted by davenumber2

Do we really need a Martin dread with more bass?

Right? And bigger?

Interesting development. Would be great to play one at some point, but personally I'm all set in the dread department.