Cedar and Brazilian Prices Mooning

[Eugen_Onegin]

I hope I don't piss off too many folks in the industry or other, but something may have changed my perspective on guitar prices recently. A very popular guitar shop recently listed a new custom OM with salaged cedar top, Fort Ross Chapel, Braz b/s. The top looks amazing. Perfectly spaced grain. Nice and tight. And the Brazilian back looks ridiculous. To find out more about Fort Ross Cedar, I discovered a Facebook page selling two different available tops. One had sold for a very reasonable price with a mention it was going to a highly respectable luthier for a Brazilian build. That brings me to the asking price of over $35k... I guess I'm just shocked of the significant upcharge for this top. To put it in perspective, a custom braz with virtually any top runs around half of that...it made me stop and question the pricing of a lot of other guitars out there now and the actial value of the materials. I guess I wouldn't want to know how much Martin paid for my adi top but I think I would want to know how much a luthier paid for the top and back considering the sale price is so astronomical.

I understand limited availability increases the value but sheesh, come on.

[turtlejimmy]

35K? Am I reading that right? It's hard to wrap your head around such an amount. Here it is translated into new Martins;

Here's what you could get for 35K (your choices may vary)
1. Martin D-28 Authentic 1937
2. Martin D-35 Johnny Cash black
3. Martin D-18 Modern Deluxe
4. Martin OM-42
5. Martin J-40 Jumbo
6. Martin 000-28EC Eric Clapton
7. Martin OMJM John Mayer.

That's a herd of Martins.



Turtle

[MBee]

$35,000 just for the wood for the top of the guitar? Holy smokes! What would a whole entire guitar cost? I would: a) hope that the guitar could play itself, because b) I'd be terrified to touch it.

[The Bard Rocks]

Originally Posted by MBee

$35,000 just for the wood for the top of the guitar? Holy smokes! What would a whole entire guitar cost? I would: a) hope that the guitar could play itself, because b) I'd be terrified to touch it.

I think he means for a finished guitar. Either way it isn't cheap. And I understand the price is somewhat north of $35K. That's thin and rare air up there. It would be hard for me to breathe. But I bet it would be fun.

[Sadie-f]

Perhaps you mean fort Ross redwood? I was able to find one such at Eddie's guitars.

A while back SCGC was offering 3000 yo sitka that had been preserved in permafrost. I forget the up charge, it was substantial. I decided on old growth Adirondack for my guitar, still not cheap, however I'm figuring most of the guitar's tone comes from the top and Adi is quite a known quantity.

When I had an opportunity to visit the shop there was one remaining ancient sitka top in their woods room. It's got a unique look, for sure, I'm glad I went with Adirondack.

[Osage]

I know the guitar you're talking about and it's gorgeous. For someone with unlimited funds, it'll probably be a great instrument. For the rest of us, it'll just seem silly. It's not just the woods you're paying for, it's the marketing. It's a statement of wealth. It's an "I can afford the best" guitar or whatever.

One thing I think about when I see stuff like this is this: You can get a used D-28 for just over 2k. You can get a new one for just over 3k. You can get a new D-41 for 5k, a D-42 for 6k and a brand new D-45 is going to run you $9500. These are all Martin Dreadnoughts with Indian Rosewood back and sides. If you put them all in a room and played them all, there is no telling which will sound better but you can get 4 used D-28's for the price of a new D-45 and still have money left over.

[dbintegrity]

Geez... its all a sales tactic to build up the price of a guitar, the more eloquent the adjectives in the description, the higher the price... The old adage applies... If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, then baffle them with BS....

[sinistral]

For reference, this is the guitar: Santa Cruz OM Fort Ross “Chapel” Redwood/Brazilian

I agree with Osage.

[J Patrick]

…..the majority of guitars constructed by SCGC sell for under 10 thousand dollars….their guitars built with Brazilian sell for substantially more….a one off instrument that is selling for 35K is not built for the majority of their prospective buyers….it’s built for someone who has deep pockets and wishes to acquire something special…..those buyers exist and are not hurting anybody by spending 35K on a guitar…..good for them and the retailer and Santa Cruz I say!!..

[jazzereh]

Oh, come on guys, there's free shipping!

But I'd think anyone who can afford that guitar would fly there to get it in person. And that would not be me 'cause I don't have a jet.

Does look nice though.

[Tenn]

My talent barely makes a $5k guitar worth it.

[blews]

Beautiful guitar, but to my taste, the fretboard is way over done....Even if I had the $36K sitting around, would pass on this guitar solely because of that fretboard - even if it was the best sounding guitar I have ever played.....

Pretty top and sides though and the binding is killer.......

[Glennwillow]

Originally Posted by sinistral

For reference, this is the guitar: Santa Cruz OM Fort Ross “Chapel” Redwood/Brazilian

I agree with Osage. Just imagine what someone would be willing to pay for a guitar made from the cross that Christ was nailed to. It would be a relic’ed Relic.

Well, I think it's a beautiful guitar. For me as a retired person, spending that kind of money wouldn't seem like a wise thing to do. I haven't bought a new car for quite a while for the same reason.

But there are plenty of people who have the money for this kind of expense. And I am not bothered by what other people spend their money on. My goal in life was never to make piles of money, even though I have been very fortunate in how things worked out.

- Glenn

[TomB'sox]

Everything is relative. To me, that guitar does not look like I would expect a $35,000 guitar to look. In fact, it seems a little blah to me. Now that is just me, to someone else that is the PERFECT guitar and I get that. Neither of us is wrong.

Some builders are at that price or close to it without special woods, Somogyi, Greenfield, O'Connell, and several others. Many are in the 20-25,000 range. So often the builder is what is driving the price not just the woods. There must be a market or those folks would not be making a living?

[sinistral]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

Well, I think it's a beautiful guitar. For me as a retired person, spending that kind of money wouldn't seem like a wise thing to do. I haven't bought a new car for quite a while for the same reason.

But there are plenty of people who have the money for this kind of expense. And I am not bothered by what other people spend their money on. My goal in life was never to make piles of money, even though I have been very fortunate in how things worked out.

- Glenn

Oh, it’s a gorgeous guitar. Even at almost $36k, it has a fair amount of competition—from builders whose base prices are in that vicinity as well as vintage instruments. My point is that the markup is related to the materials—SCGC’s base price is a lot lower than say, Jeff Traugott’s.