Artemis 1 Launch

[DavidE]

Originally Posted by Horsehockey

My problem with Artemis is my “been there done that” feeling. Call me ignorant just don’t call me late for dinner. But I concluded 30 years ago that the moon consists of a big round rock with a few interesting asteroid hits on it. Allow me to respectfully predict that we will land Artemis on the moon’s south pole and find…. wait for it…. a whole lot of dead rock. I join those who are wondering if this is the best we can do after 30 years of thinking about it. Guess I’m a Debbie downer on this one. Will I be glued to the tube watching it anyway? Of course.

I think the idea is to eventually use the moon as a launch platform for Mars. Have people live there, make fuel there, build launch pads etc...

[H165]

I wonder if now is the right time to be so extravagant.

Given the big-picture fact that extraterrestrial colonization is the only hope for the long-term survival of Earthlings, it is the perfect time.

[tinnitus]

Originally Posted by H165

Given the big-picture fact that extraterrestrial colonization is the only hope for the long-term survival of Earthlings, it is the perfect time.

+1
World population has tripled since I was born.

[Jamolay]

And it will probably more than triple again long before we have the capability to go to and live elsewhere.

We need to start working on what we have, rather than keep on trashing the place with some vain hope we can ditch it for an alternative.

Unfortunately, the physics and reality of space and time make colonization of space extremely difficult and unlikely. Not to mention simple biology. I doubt we really can thrive away from earth. We need her and the entire biome to survive.

[H165]

Unfortunately, the physics and reality of space and time make colonization of space extremely difficult and unlikely.

I'm an observer and an optimist, with physicist and mathematician friends. The physics and "reality" of space and time have changed several times during my lifetime, and I think we'll have more changes soon.

Not to mention simple biology. I doubt we really can thrive away from earth. We need her and the entire biome to survive.

Survival is about adaptation. In this case, adaptation to living off-earth, whether it is on long-haul spacecraft or at the many human-habitable destinations mathematically assumed in existence out there.

I suppose we could develop the means to easily and cheaply extract potable water from seawater and thereby put off the inevitable for a few years, but we'll be right back to extra-terrestrial expansion soon after.

For me, the big-picture choice is simple:

Choice 1: Attempt colonization of another living space, or

Choice 2: Hang around a place where certain groups of humans would rather exterminate than work with certain other groups, regardless of the fact they know nothing about the group they want to eliminate.

To push these assumptions further, let's stipulate that, in our future, one united and harmonious group has finally managed to eradicate all competition on earth and lives here in harmony. Pretty soon, they once again see they will run out of food, water, and livable space. We're then back to Choice 1.

[Dirk Hofman]

The colonization thing is odd to me. I mean, I get that humans want to expand and explore, but that's different.

I just don't see a timeline for human population reaching critical mass and an unlivable planet, and our getting a significant number of people living permanently in another environment. The former is going to happen way, way before the latter. If we destroy this planet but have a few folks continuing the species on another rock...I'm not sure that matters much to me.

The issues we'll face at home seem less daunting than trying to solve the distances of time, space and all the challenges of moving people off this planet and surviving somewhere else. Finding a suitable location will be hard enough, and then come the challenges of reaching this potential location and moving people to it. Seems infinitely harder than waking up and addressing the reality here at home.

Let's definitely explore and move forward. It's in our nature. But I don't see the issues facing us on the planet being solved anywhere but on this planet. The two things are essentially unrelated IMO.

[ozzman]

NASA administrator Bill Nelson says mid November most likely now

[ewalling]

Originally Posted by Dirk Hofman

Let's definitely explore and move forward. It's in our nature. ...

I remember an Arthur C. Clarke story that cast doubt on that premise - the futility and arrogance of such a tiny microdot on the face of existence, as is the human race, thinking it can 'take on' the vast enormity of space as it did Africa or the American west in the last century.

As you say, we would be far better off concentrating our efforts into what we can realistically do here to improve things instead of writing this planet off as no longer worth the bother and ludicrously entertaining the possibility setting up house somewhere else and starting over.

As Clint Eastwood said, a man has to know his limitations!

[DavidE]

Originally Posted by ozzman

NASA administrator Bill Nelson says mid November most likely now

Dang it! I really wanted to see this go up at the end of October. I have so much going on in November I doubt I'll be able to make it down there.

[tinnitus]

TLC is hoping to go there and film a new series in the diminished gravity, "My 100 Pound Life."

[Silurian]

Originally Posted by ewalling

I remember an Arthur C. Clarke story that cast doubt on that premise - the futility and arrogance of such a tiny microdot on the face of existence, as is the human race, thinking it can 'take on' the vast enormity of space as it did Africa or the American west in the last century.

I

Thankfully, this Eurocentric view of history is being questioned. There were already plenty of people in Africa and the American West before Europeans rocked up and "took it on" .

[RedJoker]

Originally Posted by ewalling

.As you say, we would be far better off concentrating our efforts into what we can realistically do here to improve things instead of writing this planet off as no longer worth the bother and ludicrously entertaining the possibility setting up house somewhere else and starting over.

I don't see these two goals as being mutually exclusive. Besides, it's not like we're doing a bang up job on improving things on earth. We can't even agree what "improve" means. I'm loving this new age of space flight!

[ewalling]

Originally Posted by Silurian

Thankfully, this Eurocentric view of history is being questioned. There were already plenty of people in Africa and the American West before Europeans rocked up and "took it on" .

You're missing the point I was trying to make. Whether people lived there has nothing to do with the 'can-do' pioneering spirit of the people that set about 'taming' those lands. The idea of the old can-do spirit somehow taming space is bordering on certifiable delusionary!

[Jamolay]

I agree. In the absence of some unexpected and unlikely scientific breakthroughs, like the ability to safely travel faster than the speed of light and artificial gravity, outer space is likely to be a limited and difficult resource.

Unfortunately, I think the idea of faster than light travel, wormholes or other means of bending space time are likely fantasy.

Who knows, I can be wrong, but we are not close to any such abilities and our current understanding of physics would suggest these are not possible.

One problem is that our human bodies follow a certain macro-physics and have to be able to survive anything we discover in this regard.

So, if a black hole can pop something out in another part of the universe as a hole through space-time, or we learn to punch such a hole ourselves, how does my fragile meat bag stay intact through the process?

[ozzman]

Originally Posted by Jamolay

I agree. In the absence of some unexpected and unlikely scientific breakthroughs, like the ability to safely travel faster than the speed of light and artificial gravity, outer space is likely to be a limited and difficult resource.

Unfortunately, I think the idea of faster than light travel, wormholes or other means of bending space time are likely fantasy.

Who knows, I can be wrong, but we are not close to any such abilities and our current understanding of physics would suggest these are not possible.

One problem is that our human bodies follow a certain macro-physics and have to be able to survive anything we discover in this regard.

So, if a black hole can pop something out in another part of the universe as a hole through space-time, or we learn to punch such a hole ourselves, how does my fragile meat bag stay intact through the process?

good points. just think about colonizing the sea floor,living and working and mining it. And its on earth.